Opinions on the Multiair Springs from Tork? - Page 49 - Fiat 124 Spider Forum
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post #481 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by klikai View Post
no he works on Multiair too

I have contact him but currently he doesn't have anything for the 124
You are claiming 400HP from a multiair right?

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post #482 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillip33 View Post
You are claiming 400HP from a multiair right?
Yes,

the new ones are multiair too in europe

check it out on his channel

but it needs

A LOT OF WORK LIKE I SAID

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post #483 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 04:41 PM
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I refuse to get drawn into heavy discussion about the springs but I will state my personal preference. Since it is clear dyno proof is not needed here, this is what I know from my personal experience...take it or leave it.

I installed the first set of springs in my Spider as one of the prototypes. I noticed a gain in the mid-upper range powerband. At first, I figured butt dyno maybe, who knows but it did pull hard. Several thousand trouble free miles later, I did one run on a 1/4 mile strip and laid down a 14.5 second time with a 98 mph trap speed. This is on a fairly mildly modified car, no meth, no slicks and no extreme prep. I drove 1.5 hours to the track, did a run and drove home.

Now, either I am an incredible driver (not) or the springs made a difference. Nobody else has gotten a 98 mph trap (that I know of) on a stock turbo. The big turbos are only doing 99 mph but I am sure that will change soon if it hasn't already.

I do not sell the springs nor to I endorse them, this is my personal experience. With what happened, it is only natural to be worried about running the new springs, I get it. I have not installed my new springs yet but I will as soon as I have time. When I pulled the springs out, I pulled some of the mid and upper range gains that I had gotten used to. Believe me or not, I understand and I understand the skepticism.

Each of you must do what they are comfortable with and I 100% respect that.


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Last edited by Brett67; 03-14-2019 at 05:39 PM.
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post #484 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 05:16 PM
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Brett, it would be phenomenonal if you didn't fan the flames of brand bias here with comments like "I'm sure this thread will get derailed like it always does when the T" word is spoken."

You're contributing to the problem. Your post could have stood just fine without it, and it wouldn't have killed you to acknowledge the technical discussion contained in this thread without your contribution.

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post #485 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by XtremeRevolution View Post
Brett, it would be phenomenonal if you didn't fan the flames of brand bias here with comments like "I'm sure this thread will get derailed like it always does when the T" word is spoken."

You're contributing to the problem. Your post could have stood just fine without it, and it wouldn't have killed you to acknowledge the technical discussion contained in this thread without your contribution.

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You are correct about that comment and I have removed it. For once, I can agree with you on this
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post #486 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by XtremeRevolution View Post
You said you read every single post but I feel like you glossed over mine. I went through very thorough and deep technical detail explaining what this spring could or couldn't do. I thoroughly explained how the multiair system works from a lubrication perspective as well. Do you have questions about this or areas you did not understand well?

I firmly believe there are no gains to be made here.

My worry is that someone will throw this car on a dyno before and after the springs with the intent to make it look better without following any scientific process and show a gain that could be written off as statistical noise but will try to present it as concrete fact.

To scientifically test something on a dyno, you make 7 runs, throw out the best and worst, and average the 5. You then perform your modification (if this is oil you need a flush change in between), and repeat this process under the same day and under the same conditions, accounting for things like air temp, coolant temp, etc. I have very little faith that anyone will make that kind of an effort to test these springs if even Tork themselves couldn't be bothered to.

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Yes, I did read read every single post but, as mentioned before, I also read links .. and in few of them there are ppl like Brett who felt the use of MA springs beneficial..
That's why I'm not sinking the mod and asking more infos.. and Oh BTW I didn't gloss over your explanations but don't be offended if I just don't take them like gospel..
Reason is that it looks like it always gets personal against the "T" vendor.... while what we should be doing here is debating about and IDEA, maybe good, maybe bad, not about the first guy who brought it up...
Hopefully tomorrow there are going to be more and more vendors on the block offering the same MOD for 124 but till them, sorry but Springs 2.0 are our only reference..
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post #487 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by pattbone View Post
Yes, I did read read every single post but, as mentioned before, I also read links .. and in few of them there are ppl like Brett who felt the use of MA springs beneficial..
That's why I'm not sinking the mod and asking more infos.. and Oh BTW I didn't gloss over your explanations but don't be offended if I just don't take them like gospel..
Reason is that it looks like it always gets personal against the "T" vendor.... while what we should be doing here is debating about and IDEA, maybe good, maybe bad, not about the first guy who brought it up...
Hopefully tomorrow there are going to be more and more vendors on the block offering the same MOD for 124 but till them, sorry but Springs 2.0 are our only reference..
I agree with this sentiment. Analysis without actual testing is speculation and theory, which is what is happening in this thread. I think it is wrong dismiss further questions because an opinion, no matter how technical it is based on, thinks something won’t work. To me, Brett’s real world experience has more value than theory.
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post #488 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murix View Post
I agree with this sentiment. Analysis without actual testing is speculation and theory, which is what is happening in this thread. I think it is wrong dismiss further questions because an opinion, no matter how technical it is based on, thinks something won’t work. To me, Brett’s real world experience has more value than theory.
It's a sad day in the science community when technical reason is dismissed in favor of anecdote.

Thus far nobody, not even Tork, has publicly provided a technical rebuttal.

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post #489 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by klikai View Post
Yes,

the new ones are multiair too in europe

check it out on his channel

but it needs

A LOT OF WORK LIKE I SAID
@klikai the highest HP multiair that’s documented is from MTD and is currently at 340BHP in their Abarth Punto Evo.
Do you have a link for this 400HP Multiair?
If it’s an EU car running that much power it’s most likely a T-Jet 1.4.
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post #490 of 520 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murix View Post
I agree with this sentiment. Analysis without actual testing is speculation and theory, which is what is happening in this thread. I think it is wrong dismiss further questions because an opinion, no matter how technical it is based on, thinks something won’t work. To me, Brett’s real world experience has more value than theory.
Brett's experience and review is the single reason the springs didn't go straight into the trash. Whatever you think, not a single 124 I've ever seen has clocked 98 mph in the quarter mile with a stock turbo. Maybe it wasn't the springs. Maybe it was the Tork intercooler. Or maybe it was the Tork tune. Pretty sure whatever it was, Tork had something to do with it.
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Last edited by Chainringtattoo; 03-14-2019 at 10:27 PM.
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