Information on the AFE Turbo - Page 3 - Fiat 124 Spider Forum
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post #21 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 01:37 PM
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Honestly I will get the 1700s turbo from speedmotive if you are looking for a good turbo option

fits stock parts from 1446 but it is a 1700s turbo, they also said it is good for 275hp
It's too bad there is no billet version of the 1752 turbo. I honestly think it would be decent if they could help increase the spool a bit. The 1446 has the spool just barely low enough to be a great car, if you slow the spool down by much more than 250RPM, I think it would ruin a lot of the characteristics of the car that make it fun.

I just keep thinking that the aFe turbo is probably a decent upgrade from a stock 1446 with slightly better spool, and may hold power a bit more to redline, but a 1752 with a similar billet wheel would probably get near stock spool with just more power overall.


All that said, I guess I'm a bit disappointed with all of the mods that are available now in general. Everyone on the forums always says how much the downpipe and crosspipe make a huge difference, but to be honest, I barely feel a difference at this power level. I'm sure as we add more power/boost it'll matter a lot more, but on Tork Stage 1, there's no real difference in spool. (Just a disclaimer, I still have the stock midpipe in while I fab up a 2.5".

One question I have is... why is the Goodwin racing cat 2.25" exit? Seems like a big bottleneck. I think it was to make up with the auto trans crosspipe, or maybe it had to do with the CEL, either way, I wish that was a 2.5" exit.
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post #22 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 03:06 PM
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Bad news, Rob. HRE has confirmed that the manifold I linked will NOT fit a 124.
Honestly I will get the 1700s turbo from speedmotive if you are looking for a good turbo option

fits stock parts from 1446 but it is a 1700s turbo, they also said it is good for 275hp
Do they have dyno charts or any customer feedback anywhere that you have seen? I like the fact that it is a stock frame, like the AFE, but the AFE has the bonus of the upgraded wastegate actuator.

I wish AFE had some actual information about their turbo. I want info on spool, power expected, what is improved, etc. I want the same thing with Speedmotive. I HATE uninformative web pages.
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post #23 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by klikai View Post
Honestly I will get the 1700s turbo from speedmotive if you are looking for a good turbo option

fits stock parts from 1446 but it is a 1700s turbo, they also said it is good for 275hp
It's too bad there is no billet version of the 1752 turbo. I honestly think it would be decent if they could help increase the spool a bit. The 1446 has the spool just barely low enough to be a great car, if you slow the spool down by much more than 250RPM, I think it would ruin a lot of the characteristics of the car that make it fun.

I just keep thinking that the aFe turbo is probably a decent upgrade from a stock 1446 with slightly better spool, and may hold power a bit more to redline, but a 1752 with a similar billet wheel would probably get near stock spool with just more power overall.


All that said, I guess I'm a bit disappointed with all of the mods that are available now in general. Everyone on the forums always says how much the downpipe and crosspipe make a huge difference, but to be honest, I barely feel a difference at this power level. I'm sure as we add more power/boost it'll matter a lot more, but on Tork Stage 1, there's no real difference in spool. (Just a disclaimer, I still have the stock midpipe in while I fab up a 2.5".

One question I have is... why is the Goodwin racing cat 2.25" exit? Seems like a big bottleneck. I think it was to make up with the auto trans crosspipe, or maybe it had to do with the CEL, either way, I wish that was a 2.5" exit.
I agree with the stock turbo just barely having acceptable spool. I like the AFE, because of the (hopefully) better wastegate and the (hopefully) better spool. The only question we need answered now are power numbers! I hope Klikai is right and the AFE will make power like a 1752, but with OEM compatible fit and better spool. Tork needs to get on it!

I noticed the Goodwin downpipe had that tiny exit, too. I am guessing it is for compatibility with automatic transmissions, because they can only fit a 2.25” cross-pipe. I just ordered the System One exhaust from Goodwin and I plan on putting a GESI cat from Vibrant in the stock miata location and running the Tork cat-less downpipe in the future to avoid that bottleneck.
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post #24 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by klikai View Post
Honestly I will get the 1700s turbo from speedmotive if you are looking for a good turbo option

fits stock parts from 1446 but it is a 1700s turbo, they also said it is good for 275hp
Have you spoken to the owner of SpeedMotive? Last time I spoke to him, he said he has not yet tested his 1700s on a 124 (he owns a 500) and he asked if he could test it on my car (he lives in Toronto). I said sure but if it blows up my car what are we going to do, and that was the last I heard from him, lol!

He doesnít produce the turbo in house, itís specified by him but manufactured by a third party

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post #25 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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Have you spoken to the owner of SpeedMotive? Last time I spoke to him, he said he has not yet tested his 1700s on a 124 (he owns a 500) and he asked if he could test it on my car (he lives in Toronto). I said sure but if it blows up my car what are we going to do, and that was the last I heard from him, lol!

He doesnít produce the turbo in house, itís specified by him but manufactured by a third party
Thats most shops don't produce it inhouse

they should not make a big difference in relibility

speedmotive have a good reputation

APR Aero Package, DG Motorsport Carbon fiber Hardtop, AFE Intake, MISHIMOTO Catch Can, Forge Blow-off Valve, Full Good Win Racing Exhaust, Progress Sway Bars, Roadsters port Springs, Tork Tune Stage 1+, Tork Intercooler, Freodo DS2500Enkei Japan PFM1 17X9 , RE-71r
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post #26 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 09:33 AM
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I agree with the stock turbo just barely having acceptable spool. I like the AFE, because of the (hopefully) better wastegate and the (hopefully) better spool. The only question we need answered now are power numbers! I hope Klikai is right and the AFE will make power like a 1752, but with OEM compatible fit and better spool. Tork needs to get on it!

I noticed the Goodwin downpipe had that tiny exit, too. I am guessing it is for compatibility with automatic transmissions, because they can only fit a 2.25Ē cross-pipe. I just ordered the System One exhaust from Goodwin and I plan on putting a GESI cat from Vibrant in the stock miata location and running the Tork cat-less downpipe in the future to avoid that bottleneck.
So there's actually a simple solution to fix this. Just cut the bottom flange off right below the Cat and widen the exit. It's honestly not a hard fix, I just didn't want to cut up my downpipe if I'm going to go to a bigger turbo eventually. If the aFe turbo does end up working well and can get me near 250whp on E85, then I'll just cut the downpipe and widen it from 2.25 to 2.5", simple solution and problem solved! I just figured I should retain the resale value of the downpipe in case I sell it, and at current power levels, I doubt the diameter matters too much. If I swap turbo's it'll have to come off again and can be cut/widened.

That said, I do have some details for you guys on the G25-550. I have been told that the turbo has "good usable power at 3000 RPM and hits peak boost at 3600 RPM. It makes peak power up near redline at 7,000 RPM too". It sounds great, but for AutoX, not for me. Would be hilariously fun on the track, I'd imagine it would spool like a classic 911. I thought maybe a GT2554R or a GT2052 may be the answer to this problem, but it sounds like the G series turbos are better designed than the GT turbos, so despite them being smaller, they may not spool much quicker at all, nor would they make big power.

What I honestly want is 275-300whp with stock spool. It seems like it'll be hard to accomplish, but I'm sure we'll get there. Honestly, if the aFe turbo was stuffed it would probably be perfect. I know Tork was working with a manufacturer on a stuffed turbo, but he changed companies designing it and I doubt it'll be done any time soon. I'm also really waiting for them to get their Stage 2 tune finished, it makes amazing power compared to other tunes (see Brett's car), but they still haven't smoothed it out and made sure it's 100% safe for the mass market. I personally would be willing to run it on E85, do some data logging and see if it is or isn't safe, but he doesn't want to send it out and have the potential backlash if there were issues which makes sense.


One thing I did hear, a lot of guys are suggesting swapping a TJet head on our motors, is that something that is possible? From what I've heard that's what tuners in Greece are doing and making big power on the Fiat engines.
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post #27 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 05:51 PM
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So there's actually a simple solution to fix this. Just cut the bottom flange off right below the Cat and widen the exit. It's honestly not a hard fix, I just didn't want to cut up my downpipe if I'm going to go to a bigger turbo eventually. If the aFe turbo does end up working well and can get me near 250whp on E85, then I'll just cut the downpipe and widen it from 2.25 to 2.5", simple solution and problem solved! I just figured I should retain the resale value of the downpipe in case I sell it, and at current power levels, I doubt the diameter matters too much. If I swap turbo's it'll have to come off again and can be cut/widened.
Instead of going through all that trouble, why not keep the stock or aftermarket downpipe that you have as is, then get a different cat welded in the stock miata location (which has plenty of clearance)?

You want spool, so I think getting rid of the restriction right at the exit of the turbo and moving it downstream, plus adding a higher-flow aftermarket cat, would be a noticeable improvement. Tork has a cat-less downpipe ready to go, then you can get any muffler shop to weld a good high-flow cat in the mid-pipe. I plan on getting mine welded in with v-bands, so I can take it out altogether on track.
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post #28 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 05:57 PM
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That said, I do have some details for you guys on the G25-550. I have been told that the turbo has "good usable power at 3000 RPM and hits peak boost at 3600 RPM. It makes peak power up near redline at 7,000 RPM too". It sounds great, but for AutoX, not for me. Would be hilariously fun on the track, I'd imagine it would spool like a classic 911. I thought maybe a GT2554R or a GT2052 may be the answer to this problem, but it sounds like the G series turbos are better designed than the GT turbos, so despite them being smaller, they may not spool much quicker at all, nor would they make big power.

What I honestly want is 275-300whp with stock spool. It seems like it'll be hard to accomplish, but I'm sure we'll get there. Honestly, if the aFe turbo was stuffed it would probably be perfect. I know Tork was working with a manufacturer on a stuffed turbo, but he changed companies designing it and I doubt it'll be done any time soon. I'm also really waiting for them to get their Stage 2 tune finished, it makes amazing power compared to other tunes (see Brett's car), but they still haven't smoothed it out and made sure it's 100% safe for the mass market. I personally would be willing to run it on E85, do some data logging and see if it is or isn't safe, but he doesn't want to send it out and have the potential backlash if there were issues which makes sense.


One thing I did hear, a lot of guys are suggesting swapping a TJet head on our motors, is that something that is possible? From what I've heard that's what tuners in Greece are doing and making big power on the Fiat engines.
The new G series turbos from Garrett are really good, at least from what I have read. The GT series turbos are ancient technology. I really want to try an EFR, but it sounds like too much money to me.

What makes you say the aFe turbo isn't stuffed? It has different measurements and a lighter compressor wheel. What makes that not "stuffed"?

I ordered the Tork tune yesterday for my new Abarth, so I will get to compare that to the Openflash tune on my Classica soon. I also have 1 E85 station about 20 minutes away from me and I would be willing to go E85 almost full-time (91 octane for trips). If the Tork Stage 1 impresses me, I really want to do a Stage 2 E85 tune.

The T-Jet and Multi-air heads are interchangeable. Also, Eddie remarked on one of his recent videos that Tork figured out how to make the MA ECU work with the T-jet. Who knows what kind of timeline to completion that will have, though...
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post #29 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 06:53 PM
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The new G series turbos from Garrett are really good, at least from what I have read. The GT series turbos are ancient technology. I really want to try an EFR, but it sounds like too much money to me.

What makes you say the aFe turbo isn't stuffed? It has different measurements and a lighter compressor wheel. What makes that not "stuffed"?

I ordered the Tork tune yesterday for my new Abarth, so I will get to compare that to the Openflash tune on my Classica soon. I also have 1 E85 station about 20 minutes away from me and I would be willing to go E85 almost full-time (91 octane for trips). If the Tork Stage 1 impresses me, I really want to do a Stage 2 E85 tune.

The T-Jet and Multi-air heads are interchangeable. Also, Eddie remarked on one of his recent videos that Tork figured out how to make the MA ECU work with the T-jet. Who knows what kind of timeline to completion that will have, though...
Very interesting on all of this. Also valid point on relocating the cat. I suppose going downstream to maybe a 100CEL cat would work. Does the Tork catless downpipe flow as good or better than the Goodwin, though? I would imagine it does equal or better it because it doesn't have the 2.25" bottleneck. Also, what are the implications of moving the cat with regards to emissions testing? The sensor would be in the wrong place, can you kill off all of those codes in the ECU and still pass inspection?

The aFe turbo doesn't seem largely stuffed. The size of the wheel's are around the same, the induce/exducer sizes are slightly different, but I would say mainly it's just the shape of the blades rather than the size of the wheel. However, if it's more efficient, I can see it spooling quicker and flowing better above 5500RPM where the 1446 starts to die. ****, I'd like a Smaller G series turbo, that to me would be ideal. Something with the efficiency level of the G25-550, but the size of a 1752 or 1446. Get that extra power without sacrificing spool/lag.

I guess my plan is to just sit back and wait for people to figure this all out. On the Tork Stage 1, I should be around 190-195whp on 91. Probably 200-205whp on E85. I'm just hoping he can work out the bugs soon on the Stage 2. I know they're running quite a few PSI lower boost than EC right now but delivering comparable power numbers (with exhaust/intercooler on stage 1). Slightly lower peak numbers, but better boost curve IMO. At this point, I'm ready for 4-6 more pounds of boost.
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post #30 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 07:41 PM
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Very interesting on all of this. Also valid point on relocating the cat. I suppose going downstream to maybe a 100CEL cat would work. Does the Tork catless downpipe flow as good or better than the Goodwin, though? I would imagine it does equal or better it because it doesn't have the 2.25" bottleneck. Also, what are the implications of moving the cat with regards to emissions testing? The sensor would be in the wrong place, can you kill off all of those codes in the ECU and still pass inspection?

The aFe turbo doesn't seem largely stuffed. The size of the wheel's are around the same, the induce/exducer sizes are slightly different, but I would say mainly it's just the shape of the blades rather than the size of the wheel. However, if it's more efficient, I can see it spooling quicker and flowing better above 5500RPM where the 1446 starts to die. ****, I'd like a Smaller G series turbo, that to me would be ideal. Something with the efficiency level of the G25-550, but the size of a 1752 or 1446. Get that extra power without sacrificing spool/lag.

I guess my plan is to just sit back and wait for people to figure this all out. On the Tork Stage 1, I should be around 190-195whp on 91. Probably 200-205whp on E85. I'm just hoping he can work out the bugs soon on the Stage 2. I know they're running quite a few PSI lower boost than EC right now but delivering comparable power numbers (with exhaust/intercooler on stage 1). Slightly lower peak numbers, but better boost curve IMO. At this point, I'm ready for 4-6 more pounds of boost.
The Tork downpipe is 3" at first, then it narrows down to 2.5" at the flange. It also simply HAS to flow better because it is a hollow pipe versus having a cat in the way. The Tork cat-less pipe most definitely flows better than the Goodwin sport cat. Check it out on their website. I don't have to deal with any emissions issues, so I will just have that code turned off when I get to that point. You could extend the second O2 sensor wires and add a bung after the new cat in the mid-pipe, but I don't really care about that.

A smaller G series sounds perfect to me too, but the stock exhaust manifold has a unique bolt pattern that only works with the tiny, ancient Garretts. You have to get a new manifold or flange for a turbo like that to work.

I ordered the Vaitrix boost gauge from EC and it should be here next week. If I can hold off on installing the Tork tune, then I will drive the car on the stock tune for several days to see what the stock levels of boost are and then compare them to the Tork tune. I can't wait!
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