Information on the AFE Turbo - Page 4 - Fiat 124 Spider Forum
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post #31 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Christian Peehler View Post
Very interesting on all of this. Also valid point on relocating the cat. I suppose going downstream to maybe a 100CEL cat would work. Does the Tork catless downpipe flow as good or better than the Goodwin, though? I would imagine it does equal or better it because it doesn't have the 2.25" bottleneck. Also, what are the implications of moving the cat with regards to emissions testing? The sensor would be in the wrong place, can you kill off all of those codes in the ECU and still pass inspection?

The aFe turbo doesn't seem largely stuffed. The size of the wheel's are around the same, the induce/exducer sizes are slightly different, but I would say mainly it's just the shape of the blades rather than the size of the wheel. However, if it's more efficient, I can see it spooling quicker and flowing better above 5500RPM where the 1446 starts to die. ****, I'd like a Smaller G series turbo, that to me would be ideal. Something with the efficiency level of the G25-550, but the size of a 1752 or 1446. Get that extra power without sacrificing spool/lag.

I guess my plan is to just sit back and wait for people to figure this all out. On the Tork Stage 1, I should be around 190-195whp on 91. Probably 200-205whp on E85. I'm just hoping he can work out the bugs soon on the Stage 2. I know they're running quite a few PSI lower boost than EC right now but delivering comparable power numbers (with exhaust/intercooler on stage 1). Slightly lower peak numbers, but better boost curve IMO. At this point, I'm ready for 4-6 more pounds of boost.
Stage 2 will be released soon I'm pretty sure ;-).
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post #32 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 01:22 PM
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Stage 2 will be released soon I'm pretty sure ;-).
Yeah didn't sound like John was too close last time I talked to him a few weeks ago. I spoke to Brett more and it sounds like he's trying to pressure him to get it all worked out.

I know Brett told me it made more power on his car, but they had issues smoothing the curve out. He said it made a lot more power, but delivery was a bit lumpy, and they have to make sure there's no knock at all before releasing it. So they need to make it a bit safer too still. Either way, it'll be a great tune once it's sorted, but I feel like we have a few months to wait at least still.


I haven't heard anything recently about the aFe dyno results, does anyone know if they're going to be testing it?
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post #33 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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Stage 2 will be released soon I'm pretty sure ;-).
emmm I have the stage 2, it was called the stage 1.5 for awhile now...
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post #34 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Christian Peehler View Post
Yeah didn't sound like John was too close last time I talked to him a few weeks ago. I spoke to Brett more and it sounds like he's trying to pressure him to get it all worked out.

I know Brett told me it made more power on his car, but they had issues smoothing the curve out. He said it made a lot more power, but delivery was a bit lumpy, and they have to make sure there's no knock at all before releasing it. So they need to make it a bit safer too still. Either way, it'll be a great tune once it's sorted, but I feel like we have a few months to wait at least still.


I haven't heard anything recently about the aFe dyno results, does anyone know if they're going to be testing it?
I had three different versions of what they are calling Stage 2 on my car. With the first two versions I heard noises under load that sounded like "marbles in a can" which is indicative of knock. I can't say for certain that's what it was but it did give me some concern because it was very audible. The third version did not have this but did have a severe misfire issue. I only ran that tune for one test drive of 10 miles because it was so bad.

But the main problem was the boost dumping issue. It only dumped boost when I would do a third gear or higher pull from 3000 rpms. It would hit 25 PSI then pop off about 5 PSI five times in a row before settling back in. You could feel the car shudder when it did it. If I just rowed through the gears as in a race I did not have that problem. But once it settled in at 25 PSI it did not drop much at all as the car approached redline. The EC tune I am running now does not have boost dump or misfires and actually runs pretty well except that it tails the boost off too much as it approaches redline. If we ever solve this issue it will be a very good tune.

I don't fault either John or Toby for the difficulties I've seen in my car. It has never been the same after the U76 recall. If someone who has never driven a tuned car were to drive my car now they would think it amazing. But I know where the weakness is because I'm constantly testing and looking for it.
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post #35 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 02:18 PM
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emmm I have the stage 2, it was called the stage 1.5 for awhile now...
Yeah, they had 1.5 out, but John I believe discontinued that to develop it all the way for Stage 2. I have all stage 2 mods right now and he said just keep running stage 1, and wait for the official stage 2 tune. So the 1.5 is no longer available, neither is stage 2.

Hopefully, that makes sense.

@Chainring. I think your car has had some issues on EC & Tork? What about Tork stage 1? My car hasn't had any issues with tunes, so I'm optimistic that my car will work a bit easier. I know some of these cars just have weird issues that take time to sort out, and mine hasn't been one of those (yet). Maybe I won the FCA lottery? lol No oil consumption that I can tell yet, my dyno chart looks almost identical to the one on Tork's website too (minus variations in power levels because of different Dyno's). I also do not have the U76 recall done on mine, so hopefully, that means my car will be more consistent/easier to get working properly. I offered to test some beta versions of the tune and dyno them & provide logs, but he said they have their own cars to do this and didn't want to do it. I assume so I wouldn't post on the forum about how bad it was if it didn't work haha. Understandable, I'd just like more power at this point.

Overall, I've been happy with my car, just looking for more power. I know Brett's car is working well, but it's still a beta tune.


Oh just FYI, the aFe fiat turbo dropped quite a bit in price too, it's like $932.23 shipped now, including the BOV. So if you're considering buying the Forge Motorsports BOV for 1446, it may honestly be worth getting the aFe if it is in fact more efficient. It's probably about $692 more expensive to upgrade to this, than to just do the BOV upgrades on the 1446. At this point, it's cheaper than the intercooler, and not any more expensive than the v4 intake & coil packs, but probably ads more value. Now that it's below $1,000 this turbo is looking more interesting, I just really want dyno charts to be released before I commit to it, honestly. I'm just not convinced that it will make more power across the powerband. Maybe the spool will be a little quicker, and maybe it'll drop off less above 6000, but I just don't think it'll add more than a few horsepower across the powerband. But if on E85, it can add 10-20whp across the powerband, it may honestly be worth it. Figure with Tork Stage 2+ aFe turbo could make 240-250whp, I'd be in.

I think making 240-250whp on a turbo with stock (or quicker) spool is the absolute perfect option until they develop more efficient stuffed turbos. G25-550 seems like a turbo for the drag strip, or possibly HPDE/Track days if you could develop Anti-Lag.
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post #36 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Christian Peehler View Post
Yeah, they had 1.5 out, but John I believe discontinued that to develop it all the way for Stage 2. I have all stage 2 mods right now and he said just keep running stage 1, and wait for the official stage 2 tune. So the 1.5 is no longer available, neither is stage 2.

Hopefully, that makes sense.

@Chainring. I think your car has had some issues on EC & Tork? What about Tork stage 1? My car hasn't had any issues with tunes, so I'm optimistic that my car will work a bit easier. I know some of these cars just have weird issues that take time to sort out, and mine hasn't been one of those (yet). Maybe I won the FCA lottery? lol No oil consumption that I can tell yet, my dyno chart looks almost identical to the one on Tork's website too (minus variations in power levels because of different Dyno's). I also do not have the U76 recall done on mine, so hopefully, that means my car will be more consistent/easier to get working properly. I offered to test some beta versions of the tune and dyno them & provide logs, but he said they have their own cars to do this and didn't want to do it. I assume so I wouldn't post on the forum about how bad it was if it didn't work haha. Understandable, I'd just like more power at this point.

Overall, I've been happy with my car, just looking for more power. I know Brett's car is working well, but it's still a beta tune.


Oh just FYI, the aFe fiat turbo dropped quite a bit in price too, it's like $932.23 shipped now, including the BOV. So if you're considering buying the Forge Motorsports BOV for 1446, it may honestly be worth getting the aFe if it is in fact more efficient. It's probably about $692 more expensive to upgrade to this, than to just do the BOV upgrades on the 1446. At this point, it's cheaper than the intercooler, and not any more expensive than the v4 intake & coil packs, but probably ads more value. Now that it's below $1,000 this turbo is looking more interesting, I just really want dyno charts to be released before I commit to it, honestly. I'm just not convinced that it will make more power across the powerband. Maybe the spool will be a little quicker, and maybe it'll drop off less above 6000, but I just don't think it'll add more than a few horsepower across the powerband. But if on E85, it can add 10-20whp across the powerband, it may honestly be worth it. Figure with Tork Stage 2+ aFe turbo could make 240-250whp, I'd be in.

I think making 240-250whp on a turbo with stock (or quicker) spool is the absolute perfect option until they develop more efficient stuffed turbos. G25-550 seems like a turbo for the drag strip, or possibly HPDE/Track days if you could develop Anti-Lag.
You wont be seeing that kind of power out of a stock size turbo.
It doesn't have the flow in the upper RPM's to support those numbers.
The billet wheel will just spool quicker kind of like Toyota was doing in the early 90's with their ceramic compressor wheels.
You'll see more power in the mid range but will still drop off like the factory turbo

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post #37 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 03:40 PM
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@Christian Peehler my car did not have any issues on Tork Stage 1. But it was a completely stock car then except for the GFB DV+ and that was before the U76 recall. That tune was good although it still dropped off more than I would have liked at redline. However, it dropped off less than my current EC tune does. Toby was able to solve the boost dump and misfire issues by REV3 of the EC tune, which is what I am running now. He has sent me another version that he named REV5. That is the version I dynoed. It might be stronger than REV3 but it has occasional misfires when doing a launch from dead stop. REV3 has no peculiarities other than the same boost tail off issue.

I think you'll be fine on whatever John sends you. As far as I know, I'm the only car that has had issues with a Tork tune. My bad luck. I'd say the only knock on John is how much he has going on with the cars he's working on. If he has a tune that isn't working, like mine, he has no time to work out the issues if it isn't something simple. At least Toby will keep on digging to make it work but he's told me he's done all he can on my current U76 tune. Our next step is to wipe the stock tune and start over. @Calehedron has been testing this and I'm just waiting for them to review the data and get it dialed in before I move on to that.

And I agree with @Phillip33 . Stock turbo or stock-sized turbo isn't going to make 250 HP. I think best case scenario on stock turbo is about 200 HP on pump gas. We haven't even seen that yet but I think @Brett67 's car was right there based on the 1/4 mile run he did. If you go to E85 you might squeeze 210-220 out of it. But it all comes down to the tune. If you want 250HP+ you're going to have to do what Eddie did and spend some big money.

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post #38 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 04:10 PM
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Yeah I think 240 is a bit optimistic, but if the aFe is better than we're expecting, I don't think it's impossible. I do think it's unlikely... Also dyno numbers don't mean that much either. I'd say Brett's car may be around 200-205whp at most, and that's on pump gas. Figure aFe turbo helps stop the power dropping off in the top end, maybe it would net you an extra 15 whp, and give slightly better spool. Toss on E85 and pick up another 5-10whp. You're looking at maybe the 230-235whp range optimistically, which would be quite a bit of fun for a stock-size turbo IMO. I'm sure there are other mods that will come out eventually to help this even more, but either way, I think this turbo could be a solid solution while we wait for more development to be done on this vehicle.

I imagine there are a lot of things that can be done specifically to the multiair system to make it more efficient up top etc... I don't know what will happen a few years from now, but I'm sure the tuners will sort it out and develop more go fast bits for our cars.

That said, even on this turbo, I think you're right, it's unlikely to see over 225whp even on E85.
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post #39 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 08:14 PM
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Oh just FYI, the aFe fiat turbo dropped quite a bit in price too, it's like $932.23 shipped now, including the BOV. So if you're considering buying the Forge Motorsports BOV for 1446, it may honestly be worth getting the aFe if it is in fact more efficient. It's probably about $692 more expensive to upgrade to this, than to just do the BOV upgrades on the 1446. At this point, it's cheaper than the intercooler, and not any more expensive than the v4 intake & coil packs, but probably ads more value. Now that it's below $1,000 this turbo is looking more interesting, I just really want dyno charts to be released before I commit to it, honestly. I'm just not convinced that it will make more power across the powerband. Maybe the spool will be a little quicker, and maybe it'll drop off less above 6000, but I just don't think it'll add more than a few horsepower across the powerband. But if on E85, it can add 10-20whp across the powerband, it may honestly be worth it. Figure with Tork Stage 2+ aFe turbo could make 240-250whp, I'd be in.

I think making 240-250whp on a turbo with stock (or quicker) spool is the absolute perfect option until they develop more efficient stuffed turbos. G25-550 seems like a turbo for the drag strip, or possibly HPDE/Track days if you could develop Anti-Lag.
I assume you meant to type wastegate and not BOV, when describing the aFe turbo?

aFe is having a 20th anniversary sale for 20 days and that is why you saw the price drop. It won't last long. I also very recently talked to Brett and asked about the aFe turbo. It doesn't sound like a turbo has even been decided on, so I doubt the Tork Stage 2 is coming out anytime soon. I would buy the aFe turbo, intercooler, and intake right now, to take advantage of the sale, but I don't know if that is the turbo Tork will go with or not.

If the aFe turbo can't even beat the 247 whp that Eddie got with his 1752, then why would Tork even bother? If a 1752 beats the stock 1446 in every way, then I hope they just develop a stuffed version of that. It has already proven to make 247 whp on Torks dyno when on E85, so a stuffed version should be closer to 300.
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post #40 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 08:19 PM
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I went to aFe's website and looked at all of their upgrade turbos. They literally only have one dyno result for the six different GT-series turbos they offer. The one dyno they had was 2 years after the first baseline dyno and also had a bunch of other mods. I don't get why aFe would bother with making a turbo like this and not have a tune to go with it. What do you gain by modifying something, but not tuning for it?

I want more power NOW, but it seems there are no tunes or parts ready to do so.

Last edited by chilicharger665; 04-08-2019 at 08:36 PM.
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