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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am happy to announce that our Euro+Drive direct ECU tune is here. We have had it on the car for months and tested the heck out of it. It's now available to the public.

This Phase 1 tune is designed to add a significant amount of performance and improve driveability without increasing the car's required maintenance or requiring special modifications. It's a true plug and play tune and essentially our version of what we think the stock tune should have been.

Performance is solid with 197whp. This was achieved with surprisingly small changes in boost. We cleaned up the air:fuel ratios as the stock configuration runs pig rich hurting power, we improved timing, changed limiters and made some other changes as well. The automatic cars even get some improvements in shifting.

I am going to copy and paste directly from the website:

"The EURO+DRIVE® CLONE Tuning System allows you to physically swap calibrations on your FIAT 124 Spider/Abarth. Using genuine OEM Fiat/Abarth based software, protocols and calibrations, we have increased drive-ability, power and throttle response. We are proud to have the ability to offer you the most comprehensive tuning option for your Fiat 124. Each purchase includes a Genuine Fiat 124 Engine Control Unit (If Clone is selected) loaded with our calibration. Designed and developed in the USA and Available for EUROPE & AUSTRALIA.

The EURO+DRIVE® DIRECT Tuning System is an economical solution in loading calibrations on your FIAT 124 Spider/Abarth. Using genuine OEM Fiat/Abarth based software, protocols and calibrations, we have increased drive-ability, power and throttle response. We are proud to have the ability to offer you the most comprehensive tuning option for your Fiat 124. Each purchase includes our calibration loaded onto YOUR Engine control Module. Designed and developed in the USA and Available for EUROPE & AUSTRALIA.

FEATURES:

Designed on the North American Fiat 124 Spider/Abarth
Available for European and Austrailian Models also
Use of Genuine OEM Software,Maps and Protocols
Simple 5 min INSTALLATION/REMOVAL
Preserves factory ECU/WARRANTY (if CLONE is selected)
Calibrations will Optimize power, drive-ability, and efficiency
Unparalleled consistent, linear, & smooth power delivery
Calibrations will retain OEM tuning logic and ALL safety parameters
All factory hardware works properly/efficiently
Full control over all engine parameters by utilizing true factory Calibrations
Specially requested Calibrations available (additional fees may apply)
91oct minimum fuel requirement
Strong, Reliable power where and when you need it
SPECS:

197+WHP/221+WTQ PHASE 1 RELEASED/AVAILABLE
XXX+WHP PHASE 2 IN DEVELOPMENT
2017 Fiat 124 (Abarth & Spider) - RELEASED/AVAILABLE
TECHNICAL INFORMATION: HERE

NOTES:

Direct Tuning: We place the Calibration File Directly on to your ECM. $799.49
EuroDrive Clone: We Issue you a Factory ECU with our Calibration installed. You retain your original ECU. Grants you the ability to swap back and forth as need be without any warranty concerns. $1299.49

Once purchased please send your factory ECU to:

EUROCOMPULSION-OK
10763 Sahoma Lake Road
Sapulpa, OK 74066 
This applies to both Euro+Drive Clone and Direct tuning Options, you must ship your original factory ECU. Please ensure your factory ECU is packaged properly to prevent damage. For clone purchasers you will receive your factory ECU and your Clone unit upon return. Turn-around time is approx. 24hrs.


"

Naturally comparisons to our other tuning product, Euro+Drive Lite will come up. You may notice that many other vendors only offer either tuning boxes, or ECU tunes and not both. They often insist that whichever one they are selling is better. We feel that both offer some advantage. Ultimately, what's best for one person may not be the best for another, so we offer both.

Power with Euro+Drive is very comparable to Euro+Drive Lite. In practical terms performance is a little better than EDL's Dynamic map, but a little behind EDL's Race map.

However Euro+Drive has other advantages. It offers improved driveablity, shifting (automatics only obviously), and makes its power more efficiently with less stress on things.

Euro+Drive Lite costs less, can be self-tuned for even more power and it can be switched from one car to another. That means if you sell your car, you can remove it and transfer it to another, or sell it to someone else with no issues. It can also be removed leaving no trace it was ever installed. You could essentially do that with the ECU tune clone option, but that adds a lot to the cost.

Both options are great.

Greg

https://shopeurocompulsion.net/collections/fiat-124-braking
 

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makes its power more efficiently with less stress on things.
Hi Greg,

can you elaborate/quantify how the power is generated 'more efficiently', what 'things' you are referring to (I'm assuming engine, and drive train?) and how increased power and torque can result in less stress on said 'things'? My simple mind equates increased power and torque with increased stress, not less, on the entire system.

Thx, S
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi Greg,

can you elaborate/quantify how the power is generated 'more efficiently', what 'things' you are referring to (I'm assuming engine, and drive train?) and how increased power and torque can result in less stress on said 'things'? My simple mind equates increased power and torque with increased stress, not less, on the entire system.

Thx, S
Hi sl_austin. Those are good questions. Please understand that this is a competitive business, so I won't list everything we did in exacting detail, but I'll explain the best I can without doing that.

Specifically, what I am referring to is making the same amount of power, but with less boost from the turbocharger as compared with piggy back tunes including Euro+Drive Lite. This puts less stress on some things. Obviously it's less stress on the turbocharger. It also means there is less heat coming out of the turbo so the intercooler has an easier time and the engine is farther from the knock threshold.

Now of course some things don't have less stress, in some cases they have more. For example, it doesn't matter to the transmission if it's seeing 200 lbs/ft of torque because the engine has 24pounds of boost or 22, it's the same amount of stress on the transmission, same with the differential, driveshaft, etc. Those componentes can easily handle it, so that's not an issue at this level of power.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Greg,

can you elaborate/quantify how the power is generated 'more efficiently'
Yes, we made changes to every parameter possible, boost, timing, fuel, multiair, and adjusted a lot of the limiters. The piggy backs are a less efficient because they only alter boost, they retain the stock AFR and timing values.

Greg
 

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Specifically, what I am referring to is making the same amount of power, but with less boost from the turbocharger as compared with piggy back tunes including Euro+Drive Lite.
Thanks Greg, that makes sense. With your explanation in mind, what I am wondering is how the engine and downstream components/systems will handle the stress when driving at higher power, above the current ~150 RWHP. Less stress at same HP due to better tuning is one thing, but I can't imagine that there wouldn't be higher stress on moving parts, bearings, etc, when putting out, say, 180 RWHP. In particular, how you think this would affect longevity and reliability (aka lifespan) of affected parts/interfaces/systems. Obviously too soon to have empirical data, but I'm hoping that you may have some estimates based on similar work on other cars.

Thx, S
 

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Thanks Greg, that makes sense. With your explanation in mind, what I am wondering is how the engine and downstream components/systems will handle the stress when driving at higher power, above the current ~150 RWHP. Less stress at same HP due to better tuning is one thing, but I can't imagine that there wouldn't be higher stress on moving parts, bearings, etc, when putting out, say, 180 RWHP. In particular, how you think this would affect longevity and reliability (aka lifespan) of affected parts/interfaces/systems. Obviously too soon to have empirical data, but I'm hoping that you may have some estimates based on similar work on other cars.

Thx, S
I will let Greg elaborate but remember you are driving at those maximum conditions very little of the time...maybe 1% of the time...unless you have intentions of racing the car on the track...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Greg, that makes sense. With your explanation in mind, what I am wondering is how the engine and downstream components/systems will handle the stress when driving at higher power, above the current ~150 RWHP. Less stress at same HP due to better tuning is one thing, but I can't imagine that there wouldn't be higher stress on moving parts, bearings, etc, when putting out, say, 180 RWHP. In particular, how you think this would affect longevity and reliability (aka lifespan) of affected parts/interfaces/systems. Obviously too soon to have empirical data, but I'm hoping that you may have some estimates based on similar work on other cars.

Thx, S

At higher power levels there is higher stress on some driveline components, but that doesn't mean they will wear out or fail measurably sooner. As Pure pointed out, the amount of time a street car actually spends at full power is so low it just doesn't add up to much.

As an example, the driveshaft takes all the stress the engine puts out and then some because the transmission multiplies the torque in lower gears. Is the driveshaft going to wear out because of this? No, as long as it doesn't break it's fine. Now some things will wear faster, for example bearings in the differential, but I doubt anyone will get them to fail without some pretty serious hardware upgrades. You won't do it with just a tune, intake and exhaust, the factory builds enough strength into these things to handle the more common upgrades.

Greg
 

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I will let Greg elaborate but remember you are driving at those maximum conditions very little of the time...maybe 1% of the time...unless you have intentions of racing the car on the track...
So your modifications provide no improvement whatsoever at say 3,000 or 4,000 rpm?

You can see where I'm going with this... ;)

I may be mistaken but sl_austin is referring to long term (or whole-of-life) reliability. Keeping in mind Newton's Third Law I think inevitability it's an individual owner's compromise that has to be made.
 

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Now some things will wear faster
Greg
That wear is what I am curious about. Parts don't have to fail to cause problems. Realizing that for our particular car and your tune there is next-to-no empirical data, I'm still wondering if you are able to make an educated guess by how much % the wear rate will increase.

Aside from that (and hoping to avoid reading all the fine print legalese), how does changing the ECU affect warranty? Say I make this modification, in a couple years something in the drive train fails (related or not), will the shop/FCA claim that I voided the warranty if the car has a non-stock ECU map? How likely is the shop to take note of a non-stock ECU map when taking the car in for regular service/oil change? Last, if I swap back and forth between stock and ED ECU, are there any systems in the car that will take and retain tracking data of the swap(s)?

Thx, S
 

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I'm still wondering if you are able to make an educated guess by how much % the wear rate will increase.
Unless EC is pulling down and inspecting engines, turbos, gearboxes, etc. then there is no way they can possibly answer that question with any degree of accuracy.

You simply have to accept that in some respect there is going to be a compromise to be made.

For what it's worth that is in no way to disparage EC. It's the same with any modification you make to your vehicle.
 

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So your modifications provide no improvement whatsoever at say 3,000 or 4,000 rpm?

You can see where I'm going with this... ;)
Pete,

Certainly there is an improvement at said rpms but not in excess of normal drivetrain expectations....now that being said peak boost numbers are usually only obtained when you have the highest load on the engine...which for the most part will be when your gas pedal is at 100% or close to it...now this is what I am familiar with on other higher horsepower platforms...now if the 1.4 multiair delivers full boost and peak horsepower/torque numbers under partial throttle say 50-75% throttle I will stand corrected...I will leave that to Greg who should have a pretty good idea of how boost numbers perform at partial throttle...
 

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Unless EC is pulling down and inspecting engines, turbos, gearboxes, etc. then there is no way they can possibly answer that question with any degree of accuracy.

You simply have to accept that in some respect there is going to be a compromise to be made.

For what it's worth that is in no way to disparage EC. It's the same with any modification you make to your vehicle.
I agree with Pete here...there is no way to guarantee absolutely no drivetrain wear...unless you do teardowns and inspection...you have to accept some amount of responsibility when you modify your car...but for me I am not concerned about it>:)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I wouldn't say there is no data. We have been running this engine with even more power for a few years, we even tested one to destruction, so we have a huge amount of empirical data for the engine.

We have a lot less data for the 124's transmission and differential but we do have some. We bought one of the first 124s to reach the US and we have put a lot of power on it. Nothing has failed. In the case of the manual transmission we know it was in the previous generation of Miatas, and many of those were brought up to higher power levels and survived just fine. Historically it's pretty rare for Fiat or Mazda differentials to fail from moderate increases in power, so I am just not worried about that, not at this level of power. Does anyone really think the 124 has a weaker gear box and diff than the transaxle Fiat has been using in the 500? I seriously doubt it.

Now if anyone really thinks that the transmission and differential in this car are so fragile that they are in danger, we do have a product for you. We can alter your ECU to decrease power to the ultra safe Euro spec 140hp rating ;)

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Pete,

Certainly there is an improvement at said rpms but not in excess of normal drivetrain expectations....now that being said peak boost numbers are usually only obtained when you have the highest load on the engine...which for the most part will be when your gas pedal is at 100% or close to it...now this is what I am familiar with on other higher horsepower platforms...now if the 1.4 multiair delivers full boost and peak horsepower/torque numbers under partial throttle say 50-75% throttle I will stand corrected...I will leave that to Greg who should have a pretty good idea of how boost numbers perform at partial throttle...
In normal driving you accelerate and travel at the rate of the surrounding traffic. Those are well below the maximum rates for even a stock engine. It doesn't matter if your 1.4 mulitair has 160 or 300 horsepower, when you are accelerating at the same rate as the Prius in front of you the wear is going to be the same. Now when you put the pedal all the way down, I am sure wear increases, but it's difficult to quantify, and we have many Fiat 500 Abarth customers with more power and quite a few over 100k miles without issues.

If you really want to minimize wear on your car, don't abuse it, and take good care of it with regular oil changes, and filter changes/cleaning. These are the things you can really control to minimize wear, and they are the things that many people ignore. The tune you run just isn't going to be a significant factor.

Greg
 

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Pete,

do you agree that all drivetrain parts have a design limit??...and do you also agree that the design limit is built to exceed the stock expectations of the drivetrain??...in other words like the transmission has design limits of say 250 ft-lbs and the engine produces 180 ft-lbs...I am saying that under partial throttle application those design guidelines are not exceeded because the engine will not produce past stock drivetrain expectation...It's highly unlikely you will see 180 ft-lbs of torque at 50% throttle...let alone the actual design limits of the components....now once that foot goes to the floor and the boost peaks out it may be a lot closer and you could possibly see some component wear...I don't know about you my foot is seldom all the way on the floor...too many police officers around for that and I don't want my insurance to go up>:)
 

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do you agree that all drivetrain parts have a design limit??
I do agree, what I do not agree with is that wear is linear within those design parameters.

I agree that (based on anecdotal evidence) EC modifications will not break people's cars. I do not agree that they will not wear them out faster than had they not been modified.

As I've said earlier, that is not to disparage EC, however a specific question was asked by sl_austin.
 

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Do you need a new tune if exhaust, intake is changed, etc or does it adapt and optimize the new and improved condition?
 
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