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Does anyone know why does the US spec has 160hp and the EU spec has 140hp? I mean. They have the same engine and it doesn't make any sense.

Does the Abarth has different specs between regions? It has 164hp or 170hp?

Also, does anybody know what are the 0-60mph or 0-100km times? Every review gives a different time, and I couldn't find any official info in Fiat page!

Thank u
 

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One possibility is the way they measure it. Are we talking rear wheel or crankshaft? European horses are a different size? When a shop dynos a car they put in "correction factors" to compensate for temperature, altitude and fudge factors. In other words they may not be that different.
 

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I think it's because the Abarth brand means a lot more in Europe than in the US. They deliberately detuned the FIAT version to 140 HP to create a larger gap for the Abarth version and create more of an incentive to shell out for the higher performance.

In the US, Abarth doesn't mean anything because FIAT has been absent from the market for 25 years. Thus it's just a trim level rather than a performance bonus. US Classica and Lusso versions have the European Abarth tune, but not the suspension.
 

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For whatever reason, many manufacturers seem to think the US market "needs" more power due to more time spent on high-speed highways, so you often see a lack of smaller, lower-output options. (for instance, the ND Miata only comes with the 2.0 here). I assume insurance regs in Europe also have something to do with lower base tunes there, too.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to max boost pressure. With the 500, the base Abarth(world) and "Turbo"(US/CAN) maxed out at about 14psi/135hp. The Abarth Essesse(world) and Abarth(US/CAN) maxed out at about 18psi/160hp. I'm not sure if the turbochargers themselves were physically different.

With the 124, all US/CAN models have a max boost pressure of 22psi, which is reserved for Abarth spec only everywhere else. The US/CAN Abarth has 4 more hp than the Classica and Lusso due to the lack of muffler, but other than that engine specs are the same. "Sport mode" increases pedal sensitivity and moves the torque curve, but doesn't change output numbers.

I wouldn't be surprised if world-spec Fiat 124s were maxing out at ~15 psi of boost rather than 22. Again, not sure if that's a physical difference in the turbocharger itself, or just software. If it's software, it's likely quite easy to overcome.

As far as Abarth output differences between regions, that likely comes down to exhaust... the 170hp number comes from the Record Monza exhaust, which the US/CAN models don't come standard with. The US/CAN Abarths are comparatively cheaper than the world models, part of which is because of less premium parts content like the exhaust and some of the interior trims.
 

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Fiat still quote he same 168hp/125kw for the Australian model as the UK one.....and the Record Monza exhaust is not standard here (it's a dealer fit option). Go figure.

And they decided to only go with the Abarth branded car here. Abarth have done pretty well here with the 500 so the brand is known. There is no Fiat version available in Aus. But the pricing on the Abarth is pretty sharp...it's about in line with a top spec 2.0 GT MX5....which makes it the better buy here IMHO.
 
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I think it's because the Abarth brand means a lot more in Europe than in the US. They deliberately detuned the FIAT version to 140 HP to create a larger gap for the Abarth version and create more of an incentive to shell out for the higher performance.

In the US, Abarth doesn't mean anything because FIAT has been absent from the market for 25 years. Thus it's just a trim level rather than a performance bonus. US Classica and Lusso versions have the European Abarth tune, but not the suspension.
From Europe, I totally agree I think is only marketting.
You have to know in Europe, the Fiat spider is around/less than 30000 Euro while they sell the abarth more than 40000 Euro...
 

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The Euro 140hp version simply has a different map in the ECU that holds back the power. That's it.

Greg
are you sure? Here in Italy the standard Fiat 124 has been dynoed at 155cv, which is nearly the same you probably measure in US...and it's 15cv more than declared.
The Abarths are dynoed at 158cv, so it's basically the same of the Fiat version, except some difference probably coming from the muffler (Record Monza here is fitted as stock), which is 12cv less than declared.
So in my point of view the map is basically the same for all model/versions around the world, what is changing is the marketing/advertising material.
 

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are you sure? Here in Italy the standard Fiat 124 has been dynoed at 155cv, which is nearly the same you probably measure in US...and it's 15cv more than declared.
The Abarths are dynoed at 158cv, so it's basically the same of the Fiat version, except some difference probably coming from the muffler (Record Monza here is fitted as stock), which is 12cv less than declared.
So in my point of view the map is basically the same for all model/versions around the world, what is changing is the marketing/advertising material.
Interesting. I wonder if for the Euro market they under rate on paper for "Abarth optics".

A lot of cars come under rated nowadays - a lot of BMWs for example - so it's not that unusual I guess. There must be a mythical insurance break point or EU classification or something.

I can't speak to the U.S. but in Canada FIAT is pretty unknown in non-enthusiast circles. Abarth is even less known. The Canadian market is slightly more accommodating for small engine cars but not much.

Five years ago if some one told me I would be considering a FIAT as my next toy car I'd have laughed them out of the house.

Funny thing happened though... the 500 Abarth review by dork Clarkson on Top Gear sort of made me aware of the car, then guys in my local car club started showing up at events with them, then they started mod'ing them.... Pretty cool, fast per platform/class and they make funny noises - "endearing" but still wrong wheel drive.

And now there's the 124... :) It ticks all the boxes for a car I want - when the hard top comes.

<sorry - OT>
 

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are you sure? Here in Italy the standard Fiat 124 has been dynoed at 155cv, which is nearly the same you probably measure in US...and it's 15cv more than declared.
The Abarths are dynoed at 158cv, so it's basically the same of the Fiat version, except some difference probably coming from the muffler (Record Monza here is fitted as stock), which is 12cv less than declared.
So in my point of view the map is basically the same for all model/versions around the world, what is changing is the marketing/advertising material.
this is really interesting. :eek:
 

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are you sure? Here in Italy the standard Fiat 124 has been dynoed at 155cv, which is nearly the same you probably measure in US...and it's 15cv more than declared.
The Abarths are dynoed at 158cv, so it's basically the same of the Fiat version, except some difference probably coming from the muffler (Record Monza here is fitted as stock), which is 12cv less than declared.
So in my point of view the map is basically the same for all model/versions around the world, what is changing is the marketing/advertising material.
As I said, Fiat still quote the same 168hp/125kw for the Australian model as the UK/Italian one...and the Record Monza exhaust is NOT standard here. And it is basically the same engine in the same state of tune as the one in the Alfa MiTo QV, and that was sold here (it was our Abarth's predecessor actually) with 125kw/250nm too.

I suspect SOME truth to what you are saying though. But it's unusual for car manufacturers to overstate power outputs because it leaves them open to people suing them. They are usually conservative quoting power outputs and understate them.

I remember Renault responding to the observation that their 265hp Megane RS was pushing closer to 290hp in independent tests, and they said, 265hp should be the worst example you will find. We guarantee that all RS265s have at least 265hp. That, of course, raises questions about the variability between seemingly identical cars too. Some are fitter than others.
 

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are you sure? Here in Italy the standard Fiat 124 has been dynoed at 155cv, which is nearly the same you probably measure in US...and it's 15cv more than declared.
The Abarths are dynoed at 158cv, so it's basically the same of the Fiat version, except some difference probably coming from the muffler (Record Monza here is fitted as stock), which is 12cv less than declared.
So in my point of view the map is basically the same for all model/versions around the world, what is changing is the marketing/advertising material.
This is indeed interesting. Do you have any details of this test? I seem to remember that the original 500 Abarths produced significantly more power than the quoted 135BHP, I believe they were putting out 145 pretty consistently. That said, to quote 140 when they're producing 165 seems a bit of a stretch. Acceleration tests do seem to suggest the gap between the Euro Fiat and Abarth is genuine.
 

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the car magazine 'Automobilismo' did the test on the Fiat 124 resulting in 155cv (http://www.automobilismo.it/), it's on the paper magazine still not on the web pages.

the Italian tuner 'Biesse Racing' did the test on the Abarth, and they claim that they measured 158hp: http://www.biesseracing.com/site/disponibili-calibrazioni-124-abarth-antemprima-assoluta/?lang=en

Same power on the Abarth have been measured from other tuners
what i understand from here is, all of the spiders have same ecu tuning and same hp but abarth version. difference of abarth is coming from exhaust difference. it also has the same ecu tuning with the others.

that is good news for europeans. from now on, first thing first isn't the ecu tuning. we can start with a proper coilover. :)
 

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what is not matching is the power we get after the remapping here in Italy compared to what you get in US: a well estimated tuner like Biesse Racing pull's out 183cv, the tuners in this forum claim much higher numbers...this is pretty strange.
 

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what is not matching is the power we get after the remapping here in Italy compared to what you get in US: a well estimated tuner like Biesse Racing pull's out 183cv, the tuners in this forum claim much higher numbers...this is pretty strange.
You can only compare dyno numbers on a single car dyno.

Take one car and dyno on two different dyno machines. Even two tuner dyno machines of the same brand.

You will get different numbers.

Now add some parts that are guaranteed to make power on the car.

You will get different numbers again on the two dynos

However, the percent difference between before and after should be pretty similar. If a part should make say 5% more power you should see a 5% difference on both dynos.

Assuming same test conditions, test car condition, etc., etc.

Car Manufacturer dyno numbers are calculated/measured in a controlled environment test cell using international conventions for the process. These values should be repeatable on like for like machinery and all published numbers will have some form of "fudge factor" in them to ensure validity.

TL;DR;

Don't worry about the numbers. Dyno your car before you start modding - dyno on the same dyno and ambient conditions after every mod. Then you will know how much power you have added per mod.

Chasing a number is not the thing to do - how does the car feel on road & track?

 

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BiesseRacing has archieved 193hp (youtube video) and the Abarth had stock about 155hp.
So the delta is about 40hp.

BiesseRacing isn't an Abarth Specialist.
Gtech, PogeaRacing, Mazza Engineering: all pushed the Abarth AND F124Spider to about 200hp (EWG)

Pogea just dynoed their Stage1 ([email protected]) with 192PS and 332Nm for a spain tuning partner.
Stage1+ ([email protected]) needs 98ROZ petrol
 

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I have to say that the Abarth only having 155hp (118kw) puts it pretty south of the claimed output in most markets. I don't know how Fiat can get away with delivering below claimed output.
 
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