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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey fellas, I have a 2017 Fiat Abarth Spider I have saved enough money to buy a 1700 big turbo and all the parts I need to get it to run a hopeful max of 275 hp. Now I know that I need to get my car tuned after this installation however my question is, does the RaceChip GTS override prior tunes to the car, and if so does it account for a turbo being inside the car? The RaceChip says that it adds up to 27hp, so im trying to see if my car can be apart of the 300 club. Any ideas?

also any suggestions on a better turbo that could potentially push more than 275?
 

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According to Speedmotive you are going to need a lot more than a chipbox to get that turbo working correctly.
81424

To answer your question, no the Racechip it is not designed to optimally support the types of mods you will need to support that turbo. At minimum you will need a custom ECU tune that is designed to support both the turbo as well as the supporting mods. EuroCompulsion offers an ECU tuner as does 500 Madness. FYI, the EC tune seems to be the most popular on this board.

Also, take vendor HP claims with a grain of salt. Without rebuilding the engine with forged internals I believe 240 RWHP is all that anyone has squeezed out of our 1.4 liter Fiat engine.
 

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I think @klikai is the only one who's installed the 1700s, maybe he can chime in.

I'm also skeptical of that 275 hp clam, if it really makes that much you're probably going to need forged internals
 

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I think @klikai is the only one who's installed the 1700s, maybe he can chime in.

I'm also skeptical of that 275 hp clam, if it really makes that much you're probably going to need forged internals
Crank 260 - 270hp is 100% achievable from the looks of it, also one of the 500 members was able to easily get 220WHP on his Abarth 500 on remote tuning from Tork on the 1700s turbo, and had to be detuned.

However just letting you know their performance is going to be mainly focused after 3800 RPM and all the way up to the redline, there is some significant lag at lower RPMs, you get about 18 PSI at 3800RPM, but because the of big turbo now you'll have a more capable top end, I would recommend rasing the limiter to 7200 RPM.

And Yes, I would recommend going to forge internals at least pistons and rods at that level depends on the use, street meh maybe not, however track or autocross I would upgrade, meanwhile, while the car is in there you should throw the camshaft in as well

I cannot disclose the information regards to the Turbo, but 260-270 is 100% achievable.
 

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Crank 260 - 270hp is 100% achievable from the looks of it, also one of the 500 members was able to easily get 220WHP on his Abarth 500 on remote tuning from Tork on the 1700s turbo, and had to be detuned.
Hmm 220 whp on a 500 is not a lot considering they have much less drivetrain loss than we do. On the 124 220 whp seems to be pretty standard with any stuffed turbo or a 1752. Why did the 500 have to be detuned?

How much whp are you making now with the 1700s?
 

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Hmm 220 whp on a 500 is not a lot considering they have much less drivetrain loss than we do. On the 124 220 whp seems to be pretty standard with any stuffed turbo or a 1752. Why did the 500 have to be detuned?

How much whp are you making now with the 1700s?
I never had much time to do any dyno yet, I am in the final stage of the tune with MTD, after spring when the weather conditions are similar to the previous dynos I will get it dynoed, and by the time the tune should be complete. For the record used motors are pretty cheap so I am full send on this. Hopefully, we can get the most out of this turbo. I will move to a new camshaft and forge internals eventually. I just don't know if the AT motors will fit MT or there is any structural difference.
1700s is a stuff turbo, there is 100% more on the table, the 500 has to be tuned just to be on the safe side, plus 500 has a lot of limitation on cooling, transmission and the whole drivetrain
I think Lorenzo sad anything over 250 crank he would recommend doing forged internals.

Kevin
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think @klikai is the only one who's installed the 1700s, maybe he can chime in.

I'm also skeptical of that 275 hp clam, if it really makes that much you're probably going to need forged internals
so you talking like a new pistons kit of some sorts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Crank 260 - 270hp is 100% achievable from the looks of it, also one of the 500 members was able to easily get 220WHP on his Abarth 500 on remote tuning from Tork on the 1700s turbo, and had to be detuned.

However just letting you know their performance is going to be mainly focused after 3800 RPM and all the way up to the redline, there is some significant lag at lower RPMs, you get about 18 PSI at 3800RPM, but because the of big turbo now you'll have a more capable top end, I would recommend rasing the limiter to 7200 RPM.

And Yes, I would recommend going to forge internals at least pistons and rods at that level depends on the use, street meh maybe not, however track or autocross I would upgrade, meanwhile, while the car is in there you should throw the camshaft in as well

I cannot disclose the information regards to the Turbo, but 260-270 is 100% achievable.
I mainly am going to be driving the streets and getting in to situations there, while I will test on the track my main field is the street. do you use the same turbo? do you have any recommendations to a good turbo that would help get to the hp that im trying to reach?
 

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I mainly am going to be driving the streets and getting in to situations there, while I will test on the track my main field is the street. do you use the same turbo? do you have any recommendations to a good turbo that would help get to the hp that im trying to reach?
I would either look at speedmotives 2000 turbo or a custom setup for G25-550 turbo, and you WILL need a built motor with an upgraded camshafts for maximum efficiency.
 

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so you talking like a new pistons kit of some sorts?
Forged pistons and rods. This is not some new kit, they've been on the market for a while, every sports car has aftermarket manufacturers making these. I think Tork sells them as well as a few others. Alternatively you can take a risk with the stock engine and crank up the hp as much as you want and if it blows, get a used engine and rebuild it with forged internals. Whether you do it now or do it after the engine blows you're looking at roughly the same cost. Used 1.4 Multiairs are cheap compared to the cost of building them.

The bigger question is can you make 275 hp out of that turbo. If anyone can do it then they'd be the first to do so cause as of now no one has managed to make that kind of power with any turbo. Eddie was kind of getting there with his 1752 build but even then he was on E85 instead of pump gas. Would be interesting to see where this goes.
 

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The bigger question is can you make 275 hp out of that turbo. If anyone can do it then they'd be the first to do so cause as of now no one has managed to make that kind of power with any turbo.
Crank or Wheel? I hit 242 at the wheel on 26PSI Phase 4 and the EC 1446+, that is ~285 at the crank if going by 15% drivetrain loss. I was pushing the edge of everything and that wastegate arm being blocked is what sent it over the edge and melted 2 pistons with a 40PSI spike and water/meth spraying full blast couldn't stop the detonation. I believe @Spoolin32 was making 240 at the wheel with his E85 Phase 4 and EC 1446+ also.

I do not have a picture of the 242 pull at 26PSI but I do have the 223WHP at 23PSI from the day prior that works out to 263BHP. It can be done with stock internals, a stuffed turbo, and some knock protection but you are running a fine line depending on environment and tolerance variables.

So, according to you, that would make me #1! Go Team AnglVixn and EuroCompulsion!

Now the goal is 400BHP or ~320-340WHP with the torque to go along to be streetable.

81479
 

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I would sincerly like to know if anyone has a running 124 with Wossner pistons in them. Do any of the North American vendors who sell these pistons actually have a 1.4 turbo in any car running with them?

We at EC have been testing our new pistons for 7 months and we still haven't released them. I have three engine build videos with our new pistons and if you check the date you will see that the engine was done about 9 months ago. Pistons are a big deal, you don't want to do them twice, and I don't want any EC customer to have to do them twice.

It seems to me as if a lot of vendors are putting pistons up for sale without actually testing them first and I think it's a huge mistake.

Greg
 

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Forged pistons and rods. This is not some new kit, they've been on the market for a while, every sports car has aftermarket manufacturers making these. I think Tork sells them as well as a few others. Alternatively you can take a risk with the stock engine and crank up the hp as much as you want and if it blows, get a used engine and rebuild it with forged internals. Whether you do it now or do it after the engine blows you're looking at roughly the same cost. Used 1.4 Multiairs are cheap compared to the cost of building them.

The bigger question is can you make 275 hp out of that turbo. If anyone can do it then they'd be the first to do so cause as of now no one has managed to make that kind of power with any turbo. Eddie was kind of getting there with his 1752 build but even then he was on E85 instead of pump gas. Would be interesting to see where this goes.
I really wouldn’t consider the 1752 turbo. I had the opportunity to drive in front and behind the tork dyno tuned 1752 car on race gas for nearly half a day. I installed my Eurocompulsion 1446 and phase 3 the day before and drove to the event 15 minutes from my house without the car adapting. With all the hype behind the dyno tuned 1752 I really though he would pull on me. At no point or gear was It faster, and the top end where I though the 1752 would be better, I started to pull. I wasn’t dyno tuned and it was the first phase 3 I received. I agree with @Calehedron, Eurocompulsion all day with this platform. The power is there, and it’s safe.

@Calehedron will probably be the first to push 275. Or @Greg. And when the parts are tested and released by EC, I’ll be in line.
 

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Crank or Wheel? I hit 242 at the wheel on 26PSI Phase 4 and the EC 1446+, that is ~285 at the crank if going by 15% drivetrain loss. I was pushing the edge of everything and that wastegate arm being blocked is what sent it over the edge and melted 2 pistons with a 40PSI spike and water/meth spraying full blast couldn't stop the detonation. I believe @Spoolin32 was making 240 at the wheel with his E85 Phase 4 and EC 1446+ also.
If the wastegate were blocked wouldn't it have caused problems before that day? You sure it's only the wastegate and not something else?

I do not have a picture of the 242 pull at 26PSI but I do have the 223WHP at 23PSI from the day prior that works out to 263BHP. It can be done with stock internals, a stuffed turbo, and some knock protection but you are running a fine line depending on environment and tolerance variables.
Was that on a Dyno? How can you not have a picture, every run should have been saved by the software, no? I wish everyone could provide a straightforward proof instead of a half proof with a story attached. Even Spoolin when he did that GPS acceleration test with Phase 2 to compare to my results he was slower than me but had the excuse of having a 200 lb passenger and a wing while going uphill. Why not let the guy off and do it on level ground, maybe with a 10 Hz GPS as well because a phone only does 1 Hz which is useless for any real measurement.

I have trouble believing any numbers from the EC side of things without proof since my supposedly 200 whp EC Phase 2 ran like crap and was slower than my 185 whp Tork tune even after 5 revisions. So far the only person who got to the 240 whp zone and has a dyno chart to show for it is still Eddie. He did 247 whp too so at best you can only claim to be more or less on par with him.

While we're on the topic, who is making the most power on pump gas only, without meth or E85? I want to see some numbers for reference because I'm definitely not going either route, too big of a hit on practicality.
 

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I have trouble believing any numbers from the EC side of things without proof since my supposedly 200 whp EC Phase 2 ran like crap and was slower than my 185 whp Tork tune even after 5 revisions. So far the only person who got to the 240 whp zone and has a dyno chart to show for it is still Eddie. He did 247 whp too so at best you can only claim to be more or less on par with him.

While we're on the topic, who is making the most power on pump gas only, without meth or E85? I want to see some numbers for reference because I'm definitely not going either route, too big of a hit on practicality.
Could be me at [email protected], [email protected] on 93 tuned by, you guessed it, Eurocompulsion. Wouldn't be surprised if someone's surpassed me.

You personally annoy me though and I'm not sure why you think anyone would share their dyno sheet with you.
 

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"HaZ: I want to see some numbers for reference because I'm definitely not going either route, too big of a hit on practicality." Since as you say you're not going either route then why is it such a big deal for you?? 🤯
 

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How did Calehedron know what caused the failure? It's right there in his description, he saw the 40 psi boost spike. That's going to be death for stock pistons. How did he know that's what caused it? Because he opened the hood and saw the wastegate was jammed by the turbo blanket. Why didn't it cause problems before? There has to be a first time, I just don't see any mystery here.

Greg
 

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"HaZ: I want to see some numbers for reference because I'm definitely not going either route, too big of a hit on practicality." Since as you say you're not going either route then why is it such a big deal for you?? 🤯
I want to see what is a reasonable figure to expect for people not going for either meth or E85, because I'm also considering a non-meth non-E85 route. Why is everyone so defensive? It's not a big deal for me.
 
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