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Discussion Starter #1
I'm put a couple hundred more mountain road miles on the Abarth yesterday (up to 1,010 miles inside of a week!). In so doing, I verified that in aggressive downhill driving, even in cool ~50°F temps, I can fade these pads.

Now, they did't go away completely, but I backed off when the pedal went soft, brakes started smelling a lot, and I saw smoke off the pads at slow speeds...

I don't have the Brembos (though I might have learned why those are optional!) and I want to use this car for stock class autocross, so need to stay with OEM calipers (I.e. can't use good-win's wilwoods).

I typically like PBR/Axxis ULT pads - great back road pads that also work well at AX, and even some light track work if the car is light enough - but haven't seen those available for the Abarth yet... Anyone know a cross reference for pad size?
 

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I don't have that reference but I am sure that upgraded pads will be available soon. With a pad upgrade, and possibly better fluid the standard brakes should be fine for most autocross type applications. For serious track duty I would probably still want Brembos or Wilwoods.

Greg
 

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Haven't tracked the 124 yet, but I remember taking my Brembo equipped Megane on a race track that featured two 200kph straights, one of them where you needed to loose 100kph into a turn, and I was putting in 15 lap sessions with no loss of braking at all. Fried the tyres but the brakes didn't give up.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
With a pad upgrade, and possibly better fluid the standard brakes should be fine for most autocross type applications. For serious track duty I would probably still want Brembos or Wilwoods.

Greg
...I remember taking my Brembo equipped Megane on a race track that featured two 200kph straights, one of them where you needed to loose 100kph into a turn, and I was putting in 15 lap sessions with no loss of braking at all.
Yeah, I expect even these stock pads to be fine for autocross - they only fade after many minutes of hard use on back roads.

For the track, I guess I've been lucky. The stock calipers and rotors on all but one of my track cars I've had have been up to the task - as long as I ran high heat, high torque pads - typically Hawk HT-10s.

That one that needed upgrading? 1991 BMW 325i with an S50 swapped in, and dialed-in suspension to go with it. That required a move to much larger rotors to dissipate the heat, which also meant larger calipers, with commensurately larger pads.

That chassis has notoriously bad brake venting, and adding another 80hp over the stock motor, without really lightening the car much (it's still around 2750 lbs) was more than the small rotors could cope with.

Hoping the 124 just needs some more aggressive pads for hard driving, as the rotors seem appropriately sized for the relatively light weight...
 

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I don't have the Brembos (though I might have learned why those are optional!) and I want to use this car for stock class autocross, so need to stay with OEM calipers (I.e. can't use good-win's wilwoods).
I'm curious why you didn't option the Brembos when you intend to use the car in a competitive environment? :confused:

Perhaps keep an eye out for an optioned ND being wrecked and pick those up, are you allowed to do that in that class?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I don't have the Brembos (though I might have learned why those are optional!) and I want to use this car for stock class autocross, so need to stay with OEM calipers (I.e. can't use good-win's wilwoods).
I'm curious why you didn't option the Brembos when you intend to use the car in a competitive environment?


Perhaps keep an eye out for an optioned ND being wrecked and pick those up, are you allowed to do that in that class?
I was interested in the Brembos, but a) couldn't find any cars that had them, and b) was hopeful that I wouldn't need them.

I'm pretty certain I won't need them for autocross. 50 seconds worth of repeated hard braking from less than 60 MPH has never been a problem for any car I've raced, with decent pads.

I'm more concerned with the street - I live in the mountains, and "have to" drive a minimum of 9 miles down about 1500 feet of elevation to get to anything. (NO complaints here!!!) But on that drive, with repeated aggressive braking, I am feeling fade.

Regardless, yes, I can use the OE Brembos and remain legal for my class in AX. If just have to either order some, or salvage some as you suggest. But I'd rather try more aggressive pads before making a caliper swap... Just haven't had luck finding many options yet.

The Hawk HP plus might be the way to go, but they have always made a ton of noise on my previous cars... That's why I'm hoping that o can find an Axxis ULT cross-ref. They're dusty as all ****, but quiet and and high-heat.
 

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Same Brembo option on Miata, many have faded the stock Brembos, rotors not bigger than standard brakes so thermal capacity still rather limited and exceeding temp range of street pad not a big challenge.

Upgraded pads already available, we stock them...to see choices click to THIS PAGE.

My personal choice that we have made for the Brembo caliper is Porterfield R4-1....link HERE.

That R4-1 is my choice because it is the nearest to a run EVERYWHERE pad that I have found. Works for me for street/autocross...and track. If not doing track days it is likely overkill, use the R4S instead because on cold days the R4-1 can make a bit of noise if not driving it hard enough (not metallic pads that are notorious for noise, but even these carbon/kevlar pads can make some noise below temp range).

 

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Discussion Starter #9
Same Brembo option on Miata, many have faded the stock Brembos, rotors not bigger than standard brakes so thermal capacity still rather limited and exceeding temp range of street pad not a big challenge.

Upgraded pads already available, we stock them...to see choices click to THIS PAGE.

My personal choice that we have made for the Brembo caliper is Porterfield R4-1....link HERE.

That R4-1 is my choice because it is the nearest to a run EVERYWHERE pad that I have found. Works for me for street/autocross...and track. If not doing track days it is likely overkill, use the R4S instead because on cold days the R4-1 can make a bit of noise if not driving it hard enough (not metallic pads that are notorious for noise, but even these carbon/kevlar pads can make some noise below temp range).

Thanks for the link and tips - I used to run the R4 compound on an old track car - and liked them. I thought I remember wrecking a set of wheels with their dust on a wet day... which I also did with some HT10s, but maybe I am confusing the issue.

In any case, have you had good success with the R4-1 on the standard calipers, or just on the Brembos? I have a line on the Brembos from a dealer, but am still interested in not having to swap...
 

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Indeed the HT10 and other Hawk metallic compounds will quickly eat the wheel finish if allowed to bake in and stay (must be washed IMMEDIATELY after track days).

I have never had issue with the Porterfield Carbon Kevlar compounds eating finish, they dust but it washes off easily.

If you liked the R4, the R4-1 is a version with lower temp range so it can actually be used on the street/autocross whereas the R4 is intended a as dedicated track pad.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have never had issue with the Porterfield Carbon Kevlar compounds eating finish, they dust but it washes off easily.

If you liked the R4, the R4-1 is a version with lower temp range so it can actually be used on the street/autocross whereas the R4 is intended a as dedicated track pad.
Sounds like the R4-1 is a winner for me. I'll see if I score a deal on the Brembos this week - but either way, I'll be filling some calipers with Porterfields from Good-Win soon!

Thanks!
 
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