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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was toddling along on a local road minding my own business when Michigan's equivalent of the Tour de France came from the other direction. There was no dividing line but had there been I'd have been comfortably to the right if it. The road was smooth all the way across with no (a rarity here) potholes, so there was no need to favor any part of it. Still, the cyclists rode the imaginary center line almost as if to try to push me further right. No thanks, you arrogant spandex warriors. I'm staying right where I am. Don't spit on me or my car or smack us with your air pumps. Driving through a swarm of bugs might have been preferable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
They seem to seldom follow their mantra of "Share the Road"!! Spandex probably too tight, and those narrow seats, well, you can imagine!
They want motorists to adhere to traffic laws but deign to do so themselves.
Sounds like they were training intensely on those steep Michigan mountain roads in preparation for the Tour and were zoned out. Those Michigan mountains are monsters.
So many places with "Heights" and "Hills" in their name. False advertising!

To be fair, Southern Ontario is pretty flat, and except for some of Canada's worst drivers, Highway 401 couldn't be much more boring.
 

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They want motorists to adhere to traffic laws but deign to do so themselves.
So many places with "Heights" and "Hills" in their name. False advertising!

To be fair, Southern Ontario is pretty flat, and except for some of Canada's worst drivers, Highway 401 couldn't be much more boring.
And thats why I live in British Columbia...mountains, canyons, valleys, plateau....few straight roads here
 

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Yes. I went to school in Northern Ontario and moved to the west coast as soon as I graduated college.

The beauty of the mountains and tall evergreens is breathtaking, no matter the season...
 

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When I was a young adult (18-20ish) I road a bicycle out of necessity. Was too poor to buy a car. Had one briefly but it blew a head gasket and I wasn't familiar enough with how to repair it by myself so the repair took nearly a year. So I had to ride around Houston to work, shop, etc. My longest ride was a challenge with a friend, we road 50 miles in one day, along a freeway out of Houston and to the North to Cleveland. We stuck to the shoulders.

That said, I know how crazy it was to ride in areas where there is traffic, and only a narrow shoulder - or no shoulder. If a cyclist is riding for FUN or EXERCISE and not out of NECESSITY (transportation), they need to stay off of certain roads, for their own safety. It's not about "rights" it's about "You're going to end up injured or dead" because there's either going to be some yahoo checking their cell phone that doesn't see you, or some red neck with anger management issues.

For example... there's a highway through the woods in my area. One of those highways that really hasn't changed much since the 50s except a few extra layers of blacktop, and the trees are cut back a little farther than they used to be. I had to take that route as a detour recently. 65 mph, some sections straight as a board, others winding through the trees. No shoulders. And wouldn't you know it, ran across a group of 4 cyclists getting in their miles. I would NEVER have even considered that when I was cycling as a young man. Your only escape route is the grass. So of course, there was a line of cars stuck behind them in a 65mph zone, piling up, until finally a straight section with no oncoming traffic was reached and you could brave passing.

Same area, btw, where this happened just last year (and you can see what kind of road it is): Driver walks free after hitting six cyclists, killing 1 in Liberty County

I bear no ill will to cyclists, and I understand they feel they have a "right to the road". However, they need to leverage that right to get proper shoulders and bicycle lanes built, and not to use mainlanes on high speed highways.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
And thats why I live in British Columbia...mountains, canyons, valleys, plateau....few straight roads here
We enjoyed our visit, including the drives.
Sky Mountain Cloud Ecoregion Tree

Water Water resources Plant Fluvial landforms of streams Natural landscape
Mountain Bedrock Slope Terrain Sky

Cloud Sky Atmosphere Mountain Ecoregion

Sky Cloud Mountain Plant Natural landscape
Water Cloud Sky Boat Water resources

Water Sky Boat Cruiseferry Naval architecture

When I was a young adult (18-20ish) I road a bicycle out of necessity. Was too poor to buy a car. Had one briefly but it blew a head gasket and I wasn't familiar enough with how to repair it by myself so the repair took nearly a year. So I had to ride around Houston to work, shop, etc. My longest ride was a challenge with a friend, we road 50 miles in one day, along a freeway out of Houston and to the North to Cleveland. We stuck to the shoulders.

That said, I know how crazy it was to ride in areas where there is traffic, and only a narrow shoulder - or no shoulder. If a cyclist is riding for FUN or EXERCISE and not out of NECESSITY (transportation), they need to stay off of certain roads, for their own safety. It's not about "rights" it's about "You're going to end up injured or dead" because there's either going to be some yahoo checking their cell phone that doesn't see you, or some red neck with anger management issues.

For example... there's a highway through the woods in my area. One of those highways that really hasn't changed much since the 50s except a few extra layers of blacktop, and the trees are cut back a little farther than they used to be. I had to take that route as a detour recently. 65 mph, some sections straight as a board, others winding through the trees. No shoulders. And wouldn't you know it, ran across a group of 4 cyclists getting in their miles. I would NEVER have even considered that when I was cycling as a young man. Your only escape route is the grass. So of course, there was a line of cars stuck behind them in a 65mph zone, piling up, until finally a straight section with no oncoming traffic was reached and you could brave passing.

Same area, btw, where this happened just last year (and you can see what kind of road it is): Driver walks free after hitting six cyclists, killing 1 in Liberty County

I bear no ill will to cyclists, and I understand they feel they have a "right to the road". However, they need to leverage that right to get proper shoulders and bicycle lanes built, and not to use mainlanes on high speed highways.
There's a four-way stop where our street meets one of our area's main roads. That road is sloped, so cyclists going in either direction are disinclined to stop. I'd like to hear one of them explain how they were going so fast when they hit the side of my car. Maybe a few days after impact.
 
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When I was a young adult (18-20ish) I road a bicycle out of necessity. Was too poor to buy a car. Had one briefly but it blew a head gasket and I wasn't familiar enough with how to repair it by myself so the repair took nearly a year. So I had to ride around Houston to work, shop, etc. My longest ride was a challenge with a friend, we road 50 miles in one day, along a freeway out of Houston and to the North to Cleveland. We stuck to the shoulders.

That said, I know how crazy it was to ride in areas where there is traffic, and only a narrow shoulder - or no shoulder. If a cyclist is riding for FUN or EXERCISE and not out of NECESSITY (transportation), they need to stay off of certain roads, for their own safety. It's not about "rights" it's about "You're going to end up injured or dead" because there's either going to be some yahoo checking their cell phone that doesn't see you, or some red neck with anger management issues.

For example... there's a highway through the woods in my area. One of those highways that really hasn't changed much since the 50s except a few extra layers of blacktop, and the trees are cut back a little farther than they used to be. I had to take that route as a detour recently. 65 mph, some sections straight as a board, others winding through the trees. No shoulders. And wouldn't you know it, ran across a group of 4 cyclists getting in their miles. I would NEVER have even considered that when I was cycling as a young man. Your only escape route is the grass. So of course, there was a line of cars stuck behind them in a 65mph zone, piling up, until finally a straight section with no oncoming traffic was reached and you could brave passing.

Same area, btw, where this happened just last year (and you can see what kind of road it is): Driver walks free after hitting six cyclists, killing 1 in Liberty County

I bear no ill will to cyclists, and I understand they feel they have a "right to the road". However, they need to leverage that right to get proper shoulders and bicycle lanes built, and not to use mainlanes on high speed highways.
Problem with this is, in my part of California. We have these bike lanes everywhere and they still use the main road! They just seem to be entitled jerks with no respect for anyone.
 

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I'm a cyclist and this is why I really resent the ones who can't adhere to the rules and then piss everyone off. The folks I ride with ride where we are supposed to, call out when we pass, etc. Unfortunately, at times we are the exception. The flip side is a lot of drivers will use the bike lane for things it's not meant for...that's when you'll find me on the road, or if there's no bike lane...but I'm not in the middle of the road. I have no desire to end up in the hospital or worse, and in the past year, a few cyclists have been killed my motorists in our area. One of my kid's school friends was killed while riding his bike years ago...he should have graduated college two years ago. No matter how frustrated we get with one another, nothing is worth that.
 

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I'm a cyclist and this is why I really resent the ones who can't adhere to the rules and then piss everyone off. The folks I ride with ride where we are supposed to, call out when we pass, etc. Unfortunately, at times we are the exception. The flip side is a lot of drivers will use the bike lane for things it's not meant for...that's when you'll find me on the road, or if there's no bike lane...but I'm not in the middle of the road. I have no desire to end up in the hospital or worse, and in the past year, a few cyclists have been killed my motorists in our area. One of my kid's school friends was killed while riding his bike years ago...he should have graduated college two years ago. No matter how frustrated we get with one another, nothing is worth that.
Agreed. It is very frustrating when you get stick behind someone riding somewhere they shouldn't be. But the bigger concern of course should be theirs for their safety.

As a young rider, in the story I related above, there were times when I had no choice but to ride on roadways with no shoulder or bike lane. I worked graveyard shift at a convenience store at the entrance of a subdivision that was designed with only ONE entrance, and that entrance was on a major frontage road to a freeway. If you're not from Texas you might not understand what that means, but it's basically part of the freeway structure, but with business and street access though typically not direct residential access. What that means of course is I had to book it for about a mile along with high speed traffic. There were 3 lanes so people could pass, however, I had to be highly alert of traffic coming up behind constantly. More than once I had to ditch over the curb into the grass. Had one guy see me at work later and tell me "Man I wasn't gonna hit ya", but of course, when people run up right behind you at speed, you can't take the time to see if they're going to go around or not, you have to be ready to ditch.

I took my life in my hands every night at 11pm and every morning at 7am for nearly a year. I learned to ride VERY fast for that 1 mile - my sprint would usually be 25-40 mph, impressive considering I was not (and am not) a small fellow.

The issue is, our infrastructure shouldn't put cyclists and motorists into that kind of conflict, but it does. It's easy for people to talk about rights and freedoms, and they do have those rights and freedoms. But at the end of the day do you want to go home alive or in a box? Take care and be safe, even if it's not the most convenient thing, and even if it means not practicing for the Tour de France on open roads where traffic is an issue. Just my opinion.
 
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Agreed. It is very frustrating when you get stick behind someone riding somewhere they shouldn't be. But the bigger concern of course should be theirs for their safety.

As a young rider, in the story I related above, there were times when I had no choice but to ride on roadways with no shoulder or bike lane. I worked graveyard shift at a convenience store at the entrance of a subdivision that was designed with only ONE entrance, and that entrance was on a major frontage road to a freeway. If you're not from Texas you might not understand what that means, but it's basically part of the freeway structure, but with business and street access though typically not direct residential access. What that means of course is I had to book it for about a mile along with high speed traffic. There were 3 lanes so people could pass, however, I had to be highly alert of traffic coming up behind constantly. More than once I had to ditch over the curb into the grass. Had one guy see me at work later and tell me "Man I wasn't gonna hit ya", but of course, when people run up right behind you at speed, you can't take the time to see if they're going to go around or not, you have to be ready to ditch.

I took my life in my hands every night at 11pm and every morning at 7am for nearly a year. I learned to ride VERY fast for that 1 mile - my sprint would usually be 25-40 mph, impressive considering I was not (and am not) a small fellow.

The issue is, our infrastructure shouldn't put cyclists and motorists into that kind of conflict, but it does. It's easy for people to talk about rights and freedoms, and they do have those rights and freedoms. But at the end of the day do you want to go home alive or in a box? Take care and be safe, even if it's not the most convenient thing, and even if it means not practicing for the Tour de France on open roads where traffic is an issue. Just my opinion.
That had to be crazy for you...and I agree with what you said at the end. There are places I don't ride because regardless of possibly having the moral high ground or the right of way, it doesn't look good from a hospital bed or if you're toast. As a parent, I became more sensitive to my mortality as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I'm a cyclist and this is why I really resent the ones who can't adhere to the rules and then piss everyone off. The folks I ride with ride where we are supposed to, call out when we pass, etc. Unfortunately, at times we are the exception. The flip side is a lot of drivers will use the bike lane for things it's not meant for...that's when you'll find me on the road, or if there's no bike lane...but I'm not in the middle of the road. I have no desire to end up in the hospital or worse, and in the past year, a few cyclists have been killed my motorists in our area. One of my kid's school friends was killed while riding his bike years ago...he should have graduated college two years ago. No matter how frustrated we get with one another, nothing is worth that.
There are no bike lanes where I live. Instead, there are narrow two-lane roads most with 25 mph speed limit. I pass slower cyclists when possible and stay patiently behind the faster ones (who will invariably blow through stop signs anyway). The scariest is when fast cyclists coming the other way cut blind corners or navigate our small traffic circles in the wrong direction. I have no interest in a human, or any other kind, of hood ornament. Some get really upset if they wind up behind me and have to put a foot down when I stop at a 8-sided red sign.
 

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I'm a cyclist and this is why I really resent the ones who can't adhere to the rules and then piss everyone off. The folks I ride with ride where we are supposed to, call out when we pass, etc. Unfortunately, at times we are the exception. The flip side is a lot of drivers will use the bike lane for things it's not meant for...that's when you'll find me on the road, or if there's no bike lane...but I'm not in the middle of the road. I have no desire to end up in the hospital or worse, and in the past year, a few cyclists have been killed my motorists in our area. One of my kid's school friends was killed while riding his bike years ago...he should have graduated college two years ago. No matter how frustrated we get with one another, nothing is worth that.
I am truly sorry for the loss of life, you have experienced. Nothing and I mean nothing is more precious! Bikers no mater how inconsiderate, I give them plenty of room. Motorcyclists splitting lanes, I move into the shoulder to give them a safe amount of room.
I say this being a mountain biker who bikes to the destinations I enjoy riding. I guess I fell entitled to call the ones who ruin it for us all entitled and jerks! 😁
 

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We have a new scourge in Laguna Beach. We are a very affluent community and it seems that the parents among our residents have decided to equip their middle schoolers with electric bicycles. I think these things are pretty expensive. But there seems to be a "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality that pressures parents to buy their kids these dangerous vehicles. These motorized biycles have exploded exponentially. The riders of these things are frequently reckless. They blow through stop signs, ride in traffic lanes, scream down our hills, slowly impede traffic on uphill runs, and cut corners at high speed. Girls, in particular, ride tandem giggling, oblivious about their surroundings. The situation is worst in late afternoon and early evening. Some are going to get killed. I just hope it's not me that hits one of these reckless pre-adolescents.
 

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We have a new scourge in Laguna Beach. We are a very affluent community and it seems that the parents among our residents have decided to equip their middle schoolers with electric bicycles. I think these things are pretty expensive. But there seems to be a "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality that pressures parents to buy their kids these dangerous vehicles. These motorized biycles have exploded exponentially. The riders of these things are frequently reckless. They blow through stop signs, ride in traffic lanes, scream down our hills, slowly impede traffic on uphill runs, and cut corners at high speed. Girls, in particular, ride tandem giggling, oblivious about their surroundings. The situation is worst in late afternoon and early evening. Some are going to get killed. I just hope it's not me that hits one of these reckless pre-adolescents.
We have a similar problem to that in Beaumont. The city made some kind of deal with a company called BIRD to put electric scooters all over the city that people can rent by the minute. This has put teenagers en masse on public roads on vehicles not designed for public roads. Violating all sorts of traffic safety as you've said - blowing through major 4 way intersections without a care in the world, crossing multiple lanes of traffic without looking, etc. I'm trying not to be "Mr. Curmudgeon" but the city really did not think about the effects of promoting motorized scooters in a city with a car-centric infrastructure (ie, no sidewalks or clearly marked crossings in many areas) to a bunch of unprepared youth. On top of that, the scooters specifically say on them NOT to ride on the sidewalks. So you've basically told a bunch of unlicensed drivers to have fun and don't die. But given them all the tools to kill themselves.

Btw, the same company seems to rent electric bicycles in some cities, is it possible those are what you're seeing?
 

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We have a similar problem to that in Beaumont. The city made some kind of deal with a company called BIRD to put electric scooters all over the city that people can rent by the minute. This has put teenagers en masse on public roads on vehicles not designed for public roads. Violating all sorts of traffic safety as you've said - blowing through major 4 way intersections without a care in the world, crossing multiple lanes of traffic without looking, etc. I'm trying not to be "Mr. Curmudgeon" but the city really did not think about the effects of promoting motorized scooters in a city with a car-centric infrastructure (ie, no sidewalks or clearly marked crossings in many areas) to a bunch of unprepared youth. On top of that, the scooters specifically say on them NOT to ride on the sidewalks. So you've basically told a bunch of unlicensed drivers to have fun and don't die. But given them all the tools to kill themselves.

Btw, the same company seems to rent electric bicycles in some cities, is it possible those are what you're seeing?
I had hoped that the electric scooters would go away during covid. No such luck. Electric bikes...ok, I've met people who physically could not ride without them and I believe, as they are older, they have a healthy respect for their own well being and obey traffic lights. But in general...they are more like mopeds the way some people use them and they ride them on sidewalks, bike lanes, roads, etc. They should be be treated as a motorized vehicle with applicable training. And yes, I know that won't happen, but this too trashes the rep of cyclists.
 
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