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I agree an interactive selection would be useful. When I first started looking it was a bit confusing. BUT its pretty clear on the flash tune page once you click on the links.

I have messed about with ford and vw tuning before and that isnt clearer. The terms phase 1 and 2 and 3 are pretty useless across different companies and brands anyway...
 

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And you need to read between the lines also. The gas requirement applies to a standard Spider, all Spiders . They all require high test, so scratch that one off the list. The DV+ is nice but not needed, however it is supposed to be of higher quality then the OEM model, and supposed to work better as well. This will be a very subtle improvement. It is not hard to install, but I see your concern, so pay a mechanic to install it. It won't take him long at all to install. looking down at the Phase 2, you can scratch everything off the list but for the intercooler and air intake.. I have P2 with the DV+, no forge valve and car runs great. I ran it with the OEM exhaust for a while but wanted a bit more noise, so swapped it to the record Monza which is pretty much a noisy OEM exhaust. Heck, even the P3 only requires the big turbo over the P2, all else required the same. your P1 doesn't call for the DV+, not even recommended. Remember we have some hard core enthusiasts here looking to wring max everything out of their cars, and what they consider necessary may just be a nice to have but not needed item for you. If you choose to go the P2 , or greater road later, you will certainly need a good mechanic to install the items in your car. I see I forgot the coil packs, again nice to have and NOT needed. Again, they are higher quality than OEM etc etc, but car will run just fine with what you have.
 

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when i ran into the same type of feeling lightchop, i just emailed EC and their guidance and communication was all i needed to bridge the gap. different strokes i guess. with the presence greg has on these forums, and then the equal great customer service from toby/chris, it was an easy bridge. I'd say your idea is pretty good for potentially saving them some time perhaps tho. From your description, the typical customer in your shoes is best off going to a phase 1 tune, and not too far beyond unless you are willing to have a shop do the work. The ic install is not for the faint of heart or less experienced wrencher.
 
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The installs are fairly straight forward for the mechanically inclined. Depending on your selected tune the degree of difficulty varies, however, any (experienced) auto tech can get the job done fairly quickly. The DV+ is less than an hour to do, with a couple of caveats: Taking precautions not to lose any dropped bolts into the engine...a rag under the work area works well..check the forum...Reading the instructions several times before tackling the job is advised.

The DV+ does not add power as such, but overcomes the the loss of boost during shifts (Manual) and helps tractability in the 2000RPM range ..I noticed a nice difference with mine and have not looked back. I'm sure others will chime in here. There is a wealth of knowledge to be had. Good luck.
I experienced boost loss when up shifting which the DV+ solved. You'll be surprised at the quality of it compared to the stock item. You'll be happy knowing it's there.

If you remove the connector when installing you mustn't forget to replace it otherwise you'll get a CEL if you start the car, and may need to visit a dealer to remove it (unless you're equipped to do that yourself). Sounds obvious but it's easy to do. Dropping the bolts are real easy and they'll end up in an alternate dimension so you need to concentrate.
I think there is some confusion on how the DV+ works and what its benefits are. The DV+ does not solve boost drops between shifts if you are running a manual transmission. If you are running an automatic transmission then ignore what I say as I can't speak to whether there is a fuel cutoff between shifts on the auto.

The fly by wire throttle on the 124 is very sensitive and even the slightest reduction in throttle input induces a vacuum and cuts boost immediately. That boost pressure then is dumped in a split second out of the blow off valve (or diverter valve). That means that even the slightest lifting of throttle during shifts will dump boost pressure. The amount of boost dumped depends on throttle input. Take a look at the video below. Watch my boost gauge on the dash. You can clearly see when I'm on or off the throttle. My shifts are pretty quick but you can see all boost pressure is dumped between shifts and the boost gauge reads negative (vacuum) pressure. I am not running a DV+. I upgraded to a Forge blow off valve which is of higher quality than a DV+ but the behavior is the same.


What the DV+ (and Forge) are designed to do is be less leaky when there is boost pressure. The stock valve can leak a bit which can make throttle application feel like there is a stumble or lumpy power. Having a boost gauge installed is a good way to see if this is happening.
 
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Yes, that is the image that I had not found by myself. And yes, that is a very helpful image that addresses 99% of why I started this thread.

What I mentioned in my most recent post is that I would have had a much easier time had this image been front and center after I chose "i want to tune my 124 spider". Instead, I spent literally a few days on the website (and their competitors websites) getting overwhelmed by all of the doo-dads that I didnt understand what went with what.

One major caveat that I may not have made clear up front - I am a know-nothing clown when it comes to working on cars. I can manage to put gas in the tank and that's about it. If you opened the hood on any of my cars and asked me to point to the turbo, I'm not sure I'd be able to find it. But I love cars, and have always loved old manual spiders, hence I'm here now.

I might represent only 1% of the potential customer base, but I have to think the median consumer of these products would benefit with basically that image, but inline text with hyperlinks to go buy all of the pieces.

In full disclosure - I'm a technologist and have spent lots of time trying to make esoteric financial data and information easy to digest, so I know well the "why cant people understand this" perspective. It just sucks when you're on the "I don't understand any of this" side of things.

I should add that my experience with EC has been all positive to date, I'm even impressed by the tuning website process. So I don't want this to be a rant against them. Chalk it up to me just being inexperienced in automotive maintenance.
Lightchop, I understand that they are in the middle of building a brand new website. You should consider giving them a call and talking to Chris. Great guy and I'm sure he'd appreciate your feedback and maybe implement some of your suggestions in the new site.
 

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I think there is some confusion on how the DV+ works and what its benefits are. The DV+ does not solve boost drops between shifts if you are running a manual transmission. If you are running an automatic transmission then ignore what I say as I can't speak to whether there is a fuel cutoff between shifts on the auto.

The fly by wire throttle on the 124 is very sensitive and even the slightest reduction in throttle input induces a vacuum and cuts boost immediately. That boost pressure then is dumped in a split second out of the blow off valve (or diverter valve). That means that even the slightest lifting of throttle during shifts will dump boost pressure. The amount of boost dumped depends on throttle input. Take a look at the video below. Watch my boost gauge on the dash. You can clearly see when I'm on or off the throttle. My shifts are pretty quick but you can see all boost pressure is dumped between shifts and the boost gauge reads negative (vacuum) pressure. I am not running a DV+. I upgraded to a Forge blow off valve which is of higher quality than a DV+ but the behavior is the same.


What the DV+ (and Forge) are designed to do is be less leaky when there is boost pressure. The stock valve can leak a bit which can make throttle application feel like there is a stumble or lumpy power. Having a boost gauge installed is a good way to see if this is happening.
Ok. So the fact that it no longer happens to me must be because I've got used to driving the car better and coordinating shift and throttle response? Would that be right? This maybe reinforces the idea that new buyers drive the car for three to six months before deciding what mods you want (or need).

The only remaining question then is how do you identify a leaky valve in order to replace it with a DV+?

An awful lot of these things have been sold for what appears to be a mostly placebo effect and not necessary for day to day driving unless there's a specific problem. I appreciate the clarification.
 

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Ok. So the fact that it no longer happens to me must be because I've got used to driving the car better and coordinating shift and throttle response? Would that be right? This maybe reinforces the idea that new buyers drive the car for three to six months before deciding what mods you want (or need).

The only remaining question then is how do you identify a leaky valve in order to replace it with a DV+?

An awful lot of these things have been sold for what appears to be a mostly placebo effect and not necessary for day to day driving unless there's a specific problem. I appreciate the clarification.
Not everyone truly needs every mod. I've posted before that I thought I could have someone drive cars with stock, DV+ and Forge in it and they wouldn't know the difference. The Forge makes a slight psshhh sound (even the recirculating one) so that's the only giveaway. The stock valve works fine. It's just a cheap piece for such an important function. The DV+ is all anyone really needs. I honestly can't tell the difference in performance between the DV+ and Forge.

The easiest way to test not just your blow off valve, but your whole system is with a boost leak detector. It's a very simple and efficient way to see if your car has any boost leaks. You can spray soapy water on the diverter valve during the test to see if it's leaking. If not, then don't bother with upgrades until it does. A lot of people who do this test find that their intercooler piping leaks a helluva lot more than the blow off valve.

I encourage everyone who plans on upgrading components on their car to get some data points first so you'll know if the upgrade worked or you just believe it worked because you spent money on something. I have seen a ton of posts all over the internet about how the DV+ completely transformed the car. I find it hard to believe Fiat shipped that many cars with faulty blow off valves.
 

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You must upgrade the intercooler for Phase 2, everything else is optional.
Wrong. It is recommended, not required. EC themselves told me so. Hell, Tork Stage 1 is usually around the same power and requires nothing. Don’t be so gullible people.

It will probably help but not required. Also, NOTHING required for turbo upgrade either, checked that with them as well.
 

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Wrong. It is recommended, not required. EC themselves told me so. Hell, Tork Stage 1 is usually around the same power and requires nothing. Don’t be so gullible people.

It will probably help but not required. Also, NOTHING required for turbo upgrade either, checked that with them as well.
75401
 

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Are we about to enter a pi**ing contest? I got the DV+ as a first mod, and it made a difference. Yes, I know how to drive and control a car...I also got the P1 and then P2 and it made a huge difference...THEN added the intercooler ...and another improvement was made. No dyno, no statistical data to back up any vendor claims...not looking for that. I know what I did and how it felt...you pays your money and makes your choice...a lot of subjectivity here, and everyone has an opinion...if you know what I mean....
 

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Wrong. It is recommended, not required. EC themselves told me so. Hell, Tork Stage 1 is usually around the same power and requires nothing. Don’t be so gullible people.

It will probably help but not required. Also, NOTHING required for turbo upgrade either, checked that with them as well.
Hi @Greg, @[email protected], @[email protected], what is the official word from EC, is an intercooler required for Phase 2?
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I realize I'm the most inexperienced person to try and answer these questions of "is X required", but it would appear to me that EC will make a tune for any combination, assuming the hardware parts are compatible. So if I told them I have an intake and I have fuzzy dice on the rear view mirror, they could make a tune for that. They might call it Phase 2, but would not be the same Phase 2 tune that they create for the guy with the Intake and the IC.

Now that I've been through the process of submitting a tune request, its become more clear to me. I would think they've only tested certain permutations, but could create a tune for most combinations.

Of course I'm probably the least informed among us to be answering this.
 

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I have the upmost respect for EC, and have had nothing but positive support from them, but I also appreciate the fact that they are a vendor and in business to make money . What is required or recommended is ultimately for the "educated consumer" to decide. Will some mods work without other enhancements? More than likely they will. But if adding an IC or free flowing exhaust or intake adds to the benefit,so be it. You decide.

There are plenty of posts on the forum to support all points of view. Educate yourself, do your research and make an appropriate decision to suit your situation. Just remember, the more you "stuff in" the more you have to get out. The more you "stuff in" with a turbocharged engine, the more you cool it the better.
 

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you can also drive your car without air in the tires. i have confirmed it. air is not required in your tires. the wheels still rotate them, and you can also get positive forward displacement.
 

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if it was required, Hef guy wouldn’t have had the P2 without the IC, now would he?
MiniDreamCar: With all due respect, I am "hefbadr" not "hef guy". If you refer to my last post, you may understand that I was referring to approaching things on an incremental basis. Try" this" first, and then, maybe add "that". Cost, difficulty of install, spare time, desirability all come into play. But to support your comment as to not being gullible, I'm with you all the way.

Shooting from the hip is not useful.
 

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you can also drive your car without air in the tires. i have confirmed it. air is not required in your tires. the wheels still rotate them, and you can also get positive forward displacement.
Amen brother. You can change oil without replacing the filter. But doing so is akin to taking a shower with your socks on.
 

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MiniDreamCar: With all due respect, I am "hefbadr" not "hef guy". If you refer to my last post, you may understand that I was referring to approaching things on an incremental basis. Try" this" first, and then, maybe add "that". Cost, difficulty of install, spare time, desirability all come into play. But to support your comment as to not being gullible, I'm with you all the way.

Shooting from the hip is not useful.
Your username was too uncommon for me to remember, sorry. Lol.
You can call me mini guy. Idc.

but yes, let’s not be gullible for sure.

also, yeah you can run a car without air in the tires (lmao) but if EC can send you a P2 tune KNOWING you don’t have an IC, like in hefbadr’s case, then it is OBVIOUSLY not required.
 
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