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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
I just bought the upgraded camshaft, but I haven't seen any specific thread on it.

Anybody has installed it yet? Dyno results? Advantages/disadvantages?!?

Moreover is there a specific map to optimise it? Or anybody had any issues using some flashes in conjunction with it?

Thanks Patrick
 

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Hello,
I just bought the upgraded camshaft, but I haven't seen any specific thread on it.

Anybody has installed it yet? Dyno results? Advantages/disadvantages?!?

Moreover is there a specific map to optimise it? Or anybody had any issues using some flashes in conjunction with it?

Thanks Patrick
Make sure you buy or have access to the specialty tools required for the installation.

Dan
 

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I plan on a cam upgrade as well - except I am planning on aquiring a stock cam core and having a local reputable cam grinder set up a profile with me. As for what to expect, I would imagine it's going to move the rev band higher and help to make the power band a bit more peakier. Expect a meaner exhaust note as well.

And with that being said... if you want to sell your old camshaft after the installation, I would be happy to buy it :)
 

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I seem to remember a post from someone here that had the cam. He never did speak about it and seems to have disappeared. I've read a few posts in the 500 forum about the cam upgrade but didn't see any evidence that it was worth the expense and hassle. I look forward to hearing about your results. I hope you do some before/after dyno testing to get some real data.
 

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I seem to remember a post from someone here that had the cam. He never did speak about it and seems to have disappeared. I've read a few posts in the 500 forum about the cam upgrade but didn't see any evidence that it was worth the expense and hassle. I look forward to hearing about your results. I hope you do some before/after dyno testing to get some real data.
Come to think of it wasn’t it Junior with the early EC turbo release that had it?
 

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Come to think of it wasn’t it Junior with the early EC turbo release that had it?
That might have been it. I wonder how he is getting on with the big turbo?
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
OK Guys,
Happy to see a bunch of feedbacks on my thread,
I'll give it a try to answer all of your questions/curiosities..

First of all, YES next week I'm going to install it myself and YES I had to get all of the special tools ($150 timing tool - $100 crankshaft - eBay)

(BTW they are both necessary, cause the even crankshaft tool, which I thought of just being "nice to have" actually it's a must when you need to hold still the timing pulley IOT tighten the lug which holds the pulley connected to the camshaft (80-100 ft/lbs )

I'll try be as "scientific" as possible in my testings (please pass me the word I'm just a private enthusiast),
by that i mean:
I did dyno my car one week ago on a 4WD dyno;
After I change camshaft i'll repeat the test on the very same dyno (without changing any map or anything else).

Hopefully I should see some improvement as It is..
Some seller claims (outside the US) an increase of 25-30 hp with no map, up to 235hp with a simple stage 2 and up to 280 hp with a stuffed turbo.
This brings me to another point..

Maps..
As far as I know the only vendor which did develop specific maps for this camshaft is EC and you can read it on their site:

https://shopeurocompulsion.net/collections/fiat-124-engine/products/columbo-bariani-multi-air-1-4l-cam-shaft-abarth-500t-500l-dodge-dart

https://www.124spider.org/forum/10-engine-technical-discussion/24410-some-new-stuff-coming-ec.html

Camshaft:
I bought the Columbo & Bariani which is the one sold by EC (even tough being sold-out forced me to get it directly from the factory where the owner, which I talked to, claims about selling over a 100 worldwide for 124 Spider and several hundreds for different Multiair applications).
As far as I know there's another vendor (TMC) selling a specific 124 "upgraded camshaft" even if he never stated the original manufacturer.
I do remember reading somewhere on the forum a post by Greg in which he was very upset with TMC for using EC original pictures of the C&B camshaft for promoting their camshaft product (which ultimately brings me to believe that at the end C&B is the only manufacturer..)

https://www.tmcmotorsport.com/product/7753

This is a sum up off all of the info's I gathered on the subject.. please feel free to add or correct me if I'm wrong..
I hope Greg will join the conversation soon IOT provide real professional testing feedbacks and tells us if a specific map is still available.

Thanks Patrick

Ps: Zonker I'm available to sell my OEM camshaft given a minimum "break in" period with the new one..
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Multiair tuning and development makes 3 types of camshafts, they are located in Greece.
Good catch,
I forgot to mention,
C&B produces 4 different types of camshaft for each engine.
- Street medium (the one sold and tested by EC and the one I got);
- Street Max;
- Race medium;
- Race Max.

Both the Race versions (Corsa in Italian) requires replacement of all of the internals of the engine and a dedicated ECU;
So I was initially conflicted about getting the Street MAX versus the Street medium.
Speaking with Alessandro (the owner and designer of C&B) he strongly discouraged me from getting the Max,
reason being, based by his experience, that cam would had seriously inhered daily street-legal drivability.

I pushed the "I believe botton" and got the Street medium. I had no reason to dis-believe him since the price was the same and (not having neither one of them on stock) he had to build it specifically for me.

Again, maybe Greg has more insights on this..

Bye Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter #13

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There are people who are using C&B cams in 124s. I haven't commented on them because I haven't put one in myself yet. When I do, I'll be sure to let everyone know about my findings, but at this moment I have only used these cams in 500s, which a a little different. The 500 and 124 engines are not quite identical.



Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
There are people who are using C&B cams in 124s. I haven't commented on them because I haven't put one in myself yet. When I do, I'll be sure to let everyone know about my findings, but at this moment I have only used these cams in 500s, which a a little different. The 500 and 124 engines are not quite identical.



Greg
Thanks Greg,
Reading your site, I thought some sort of testing on 124 had been done, at least to assess compatibility with E+drive tune as stated. My bad.

https://shopeurocompulsion.net/collections/fiat-124-engine/products/columbo-bariani-multi-air-1-4l-cam-shaft-abarth-500t-500l-dodge-dart

Can you just tells us what are the benefits on 500s and some power/torque gain figures?

Thanks
 

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Can you just tells us what are the benefits on 500s and some power/torque gain figures?

Thanks

The main benefit is that you get more power at very high rpm, meaning from about 6000-7000. Peak power and torque numbers don't change all that much. I don't want to post gains because have never run this cam on our new dyno. When I do, I'll post the data.


Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The main benefit is that you get more power at very high rpm, meaning from about 6000-7000. Peak power and torque numbers don't change all that much. I don't want to post gains because have never run this cam on our new dyno. When I do, I'll post the data.


Greg
Thanks Greg,
Is there any loss of power/torque in the lower/medium band? (2500-4000)

Thanks Patrick
 

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No, there is no loss of mid range power, but again, I have to stress that this was not tested on a 124. I'm getting to that though, but it's part of a bigger project.


Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #19
No, there is no loss of mid range power, but again, I have to stress that this was not tested on a 124. I'm getting to that though, but it's part of a bigger project.


Greg
Let us know Greg..
Meanwhile I got mine installed a week ago..
So far so good.. I'm planning a dyne test on the very r=same Dyno I tested 3 week ago..
I want to wait a 500 miles break-in period first and ECU adaptation..

Let you guys know..
 

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Let us know Greg..
Meanwhile I got mine installed a week ago..
So far so good.. I'm planning a dyne test on the very r=same Dyno I tested 3 week ago..
I want to wait a 500 miles break-in period first and ECU adaptation..

Let you guys know..
Wow!!! pattbone you don’t mess around!
 
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