Fiat 124 Spider Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
934 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
084988F4-05A8-4EDE-9C56-B4BED8A94428.jpeg


63D93E08-C33F-49FA-A943-8CC3E91D8851.jpeg


Current Power Mods:

AFE Intake
GWR Full Exhaust
Tork Downpipe
Tork Tune Stage 1.5
Tork Intercooler (Sorry I forgot about that initially)

Original Power Mods:
GWR Full Exhaust


Overall I am very satisfied
Really doesn’t have much to say
I’ll be moving on wi my modification with the following steps

Coilovers
E85 with bigger turbo
Pistons and Rods
Transmission Cooler and Differential Cooler, possibly a custom Ron Davis Racing Radiator
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
934 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Only complaints I have is the AFR Seems a little lean at 3k RPM, also the sensor is reading at the left side exhaust tip
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,546 Posts
That looks very good. Nice power. Are you on 91 or 93 octane right now? I assume those numbers are at the wheel and uncorrected?

Edit: I see there is a correction factor being used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
934 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
That looks very good. Nice power. Are you on 91 or 93 octane right now? I assume those numbers are at the wheel and uncorrected?

Edit: I see there is a correction factor being used.
Yes, these are wheel horse power, 93 octane, I dynoed it at VinnyTen Racing
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
Great! Does the downpipe really affect the turbo spool? Do you still need to wait to get 3.5k revs for full boost or is it now closer to 3,000?

Thanks,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
934 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Great! Does the downpipe really affect the turbo spool? Do you still need to wait to get 3.5k revs for full boost or is it now closer to 3,000?

Thanks,
emmmm everything sort of build up together you'll feel the difference
But if you just do one you are not going to feel the difference really

downpipe helps a lot with the sound
Honestly I cannot feel my butt dyno with the downpipe or GWR full exhaust

Only thing is when it was tunned it made a huge difference,it is closer to 3k
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
emmmm everything sort of build up together you'll feel the difference
But if you just do one you are not going to feel the difference really

downpipe helps a lot with the sound
Honestly I cannot feel my butt dyno with the downpipe or GWR full exhaust

Only thing is when it was tunned it made a huge difference,it is closer to 3k
Thanks, I guess it definitely has to be tuned-optimized.

Too bad it can’t be done yet for auto from tork.

By the way, what do you mean the downpipe helps with sound?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
Are those stock vs tuned runs? Because 162whp is a bit much for a stock car. Dyno (and whatever correction factor is on it) reads way too high.

That said, this is why I ask people to get baseline runs, so we can see how much gain there is. 31hp and 43lb-ft to the wheels. Not a bad gain on first glance but I expected far more than that from a car that has a full exhaust, downpipe, and "stage 1.5" tune. Stage 1 is advertised to add "almost" 40hp and 50lb-ft to the wheels. Alone.

How hot was it there? That might be what's holding you back.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
794 Posts
I think the "mostly Stock" headline is the modded car with and without the tune. This is about what I would expect to see. The exhaust will give a little whp even on a stock tuned car. The mid to high 190whp range is pushing it with the stock turbo. There are ways to get a little more but I will not go into that ;)

Without mods, these tunes are in the mid 180whp range typically. I have seen almost 40whp gains but results may vary car to car.

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,546 Posts
Are those stock vs tuned runs? Because 162whp is a bit much for a stock car. Dyno (and whatever correction factor is on it) reads way too high.

That said, this is why I ask people to get baseline runs, so we can see how much gain there is. 31hp and 43lb-ft to the wheels. Not a bad gain on first glance but I expected far more than that from a car that has a full exhaust, downpipe, and "stage 1.5" tune. Stage 1 is advertised to add "almost" 40hp and 50lb-ft to the wheels. Alone.

How hot was it there? That might be what's holding you back.
His base was done with the GWR exhaust in place. Assuming a 3% bump in power using the Standard correction factor that puts his "base power" around 157. I'd call that plausible with the GWR exhaust but still seems a little high. Overall a 30 whp gain with a very nice power curve. What I think is the best part is that he is at 175 whp at redline. That crushes the 130 whp at redline of my EC tune even though he only has about 4 peak HP more than my tune. I'd take this tune any day of the week.

I also note that he still has stock intercooler. Overall,@klikai I think you have a very nice build going on, sir.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
I don't think it's appropriate to talk about wheel hosepower as absolutes when you see a stock car with just an exhaust making about what the car was advertised for at the wheels. Just being honest here; I can see a catback exahust on an Abarth (which already makes +4hp over the Classica/Lusso) giving you MAYBE another 3-5hp on a stock tune. The correction factor here is huge.

Talk about gains, but saying "we see 180whp" on these cars just doesn't bode well when correction factors alone can push you a solid 10whp or more.

I think a 31whp gain is respectable, on a stock car without modifications. With all of these modifications though, I expected more. I'm still not tuned yet (way too busy to even install those Eibach sway bars that have been in my garage all year) so I'm just stating my perception.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
His base was done with the GWR exhaust in place. Assuming a 3% bump in power using the Standard correction factor that puts his "base power" around 157. I'd call that plausible with the GWR exhaust but still seems a little high. Overall a 30 whp gain with a very nice power curve. What I think is the best part is that he is at 175 whp at redline. That crushes the 130 whp at redline of my EC tune even though he only has about 4 peak HP more than my tune. I'd take this tune any day of the week.

I also note that he still has stock intercooler. Overall,@klikai I think you have a very nice build going on, sir.
At close to redline, his stock tune is making close to 150whp. In fact, his gains past 5500 RPM are practically negligible. What is that, +10whp?

72565
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
934 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
His base was done with the GWR exhaust in place. Assuming a 3% bump in power using the Standard correction factor that puts his "base power" around 157. I'd call that plausible with the GWR exhaust but still seems a little high. Overall a 30 whp gain with a very nice power curve. What I think is the best part is that he is at 175 whp at redline. That crushes the 130 whp at redline of my EC tune even though he only has about 4 peak HP more than my tune. I'd take this tune any day of the week.

I also note that he still has stock intercooler. Overall,@klikai I think you have a very nice build going on, sir.
oooh shit I forgot about the intercooler

No I do have an upgraded Tork intercooler....OPS
EC's intercooler was decent but I can't afford the price
and its too much work for me to install the pipings
 

·
Member
Joined
·
794 Posts
I don't think it's appropriate to talk about wheel hosepower as absolutes when you see a stock car with just an exhaust making about what the car was advertised for at the wheels. Just being honest here; I can see a catback exahust on an Abarth (which already makes +4hp over the Classica/Lusso) giving you MAYBE another 3-5hp on a stock tune. The correction factor here is huge.

Talk about gains, but saying "we see 180whp" on these cars just doesn't bode well when correction factors alone can push you a solid 10whp or more.

I think a 31whp gain is respectable, on a stock car without modifications. With all of these modifications though, I expected more. I'm still not tuned yet (way too busy to even install those Eibach sway bars that have been in my garage all year) so I'm just stating my perception.
I have been saying for a long time that the bolt-on mods don't offer as much power as they should given the price per hp.

When my Spider had only Stage 1, it was running as good or better than those that had lots of bolt-on mods. Some people here have seen first hand how little the bolt-os gain whp wise. They do help though, especially with the power delivery and curve. It is not always about peak numbers, give me usable power across the line any day.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
I have been saying for a long time that the bolt-on mods don't offer as much power as they should given the price per hp.

When my Spider had only Stage 1, it was running as good or better than those that had lots of bolt-on mods. Some people here have seen first hand how little the bolt-os gain whp wise. They do help though, especially with the power delivery and curve. It is not always about peak numbers, give me usable power across the line any day.
I agree with this.

As you're saying, some add drivability, consistency, and improve driving dynamics. An intercooler upgrade, for example, might not add much peak horsepower (unless you're on your 5th dyno run of the day), but it does make the car more consistent in normal driving conditions.

I think FIAT did a much better job than give them credit for.

I do think a more free-flowing downpipe does add quite a bit of power though. In my experience on other platforms, that's typically a choke point and you can't really deviate from that much without triggering someone in the EPA. I would venture to guess a good 8-10whp can be had there
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,546 Posts
I don't think it's appropriate to talk about wheel hosepower as absolutes when you see a stock car with just an exhaust making about what the car was advertised for at the wheels. Just being honest here; I can see a catback exahust on an Abarth (which already makes +4hp over the Classica/Lusso) giving you MAYBE another 3-5hp on a stock tune. The correction factor here is huge.

Talk about gains, but saying "we see 180whp" on these cars just doesn't bode well when correction factors alone can push you a solid 10whp or more.

I think a 31whp gain is respectable, on a stock car without modifications. With all of these modifications though, I expected more. I'm still not tuned yet (way too busy to even install those Eibach sway bars that have been in my garage all year) so I'm just stating my perception.
I'm starting to believe that major mods on this car just don't provide much bang for the buck with the exception of maybe a turbo back exhaust.

At close to redline, his stock tune is making close to 150whp. In fact, his gains past 5500 RPM are practically negligible. What is that, +10whp?

View attachment 72565
I calculate a 20% increase of power at redline over stock (175 vs 145). I think your definition of negligible is much more stringent than mine. If you'd like to see negligible take a look at my EC tune with full mods vs my completely stock car at redline.

72566
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
I'm starting to believe that major mods on this car just don't provide much bang for the buck with the exception of maybe a turbo back exhaust.



I calculate a 20% increase of power at redline over stock (175 vs 145). I think your definition of negligible is much more stringent than mine. If you'd like to see negligible take a look at my EC tune with full mods vs my completely stock car at redline.

View attachment 72566
You're right, I wasn't being thorough and compared the wrong charts. That gain is actually pretty good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,546 Posts
At close to redline, his stock tune is making close to 150whp. In fact, his gains past 5500 RPM are practically negligible. What is that, +10whp?

View attachment 72565
I think you are comparing his tuned torque number to his stock power number. It looks like 175 vs 130 to me. So I was wrong also. The delta is more like 35%.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
I think you are comparing his tuned torque number to his stock power number. It looks like 175 vs 130 to me. So I was wrong also. The delta is more like 35%.
I think you were right the first time. Stock creeps up at about 150whp at 6,000 RPM and doesn't drop much until after ~6,300 RPM. Torque continues to fall after the intersection.

So you're comparing about 145hp (I'm being generous) to about 180whp; a 35whp gain. 25%.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top