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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I flashed an EC P1 tune a few days ago. Here is a comparison of Stock (dashed lines) and P1 (continuous lines). Ambient temperature was about 77F for both. The main difference between stock and P1 is boost: from 3500 RPM on, P1 has higher boost. The engine pulls well until after 6k RPM.
77348


Now the part I am less happy about.
When I first tested the tune, I was extremely disappointed. I saw during acceleration that peak boost was the same as stock, and the acceleration times were nearly unchanged. The times have decreased, but only by a small fraction (3 % to 8 %). Part of the disappointment is that the "feel" of acceleration is unchanged, which makes sense if the max boost is the same. Those of you who are happy with P1 and have not done any measurements must have a more sensitive butt than I do :).
These are 3rd gear pulls: [Edited 6/25/2020 "hp increase" is a measure of the increase in the average power during the acceleration. Delta hp=t1*(1/t2-1/t1)]
Stock 30-70P1 30-70hp increaseStock 50-70P1 50-70hp increaseStock 31-75P1 31-75hp increase
Avg. (sec)6.56.08%3.43.011%8.689%

Clearly, the hp gains are at high RPM, so P1 does not do much to improve accelerations that start at low RPM.
I have performed additional tests today, and I am seeing higher boost, probably because the temperature has gone up by about 10F. The performance numbers, though, remain identical.

The second part I am less happy about is that I expected to get the stock map on non-sport and P1 on sport. I get exactly the same performance on both (with different pedal maps, etc.). I had requested the two maps on the request form, and wondered about the possibility to move to P1/P2 in the future. At the moment of my request, I specifically asked the following question:

I have uploaded my stock map to the shared folder, but I have a question on the Tune Request Form. What exactly does the "only one allowed" mean? One what? Would it be a bad idea to keep the stock map on non-sport and P1 on sport? If so, will I be able to throw the sport switch on and off, or are there adaptation issues?

Toby answered:
The "only one" notation means is in regards to the duel map selection. However, because you are a 124, you only really have a choice of one dual map other than stock in non sport mode (which comes automatically on the normal Phase 1 or Phase 2 maps).

I could not understand the answer, so I asked for clarification and never received a response.

Conclusion: the boost at high RPM is there, so the hp must be there too. I have tried to calculate hp differences from the accelerometer data and using PerfExpert app, but the difference between stock and P1 is too small to ascertain with my crude calculations. Part of the problem is that I do not have a level/straight/smooth road where I can safely conduct the accelerations. In any case, I am a bit disappointed that I did not get larger improvements in performance. Perhaps @MiniDreamCar was right, and I should have gone straight to P2, but as an engineer, I am conservative with machinery. What do you guys think?
 

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I don't know much about this but some people told me that to see real changes you need to give 30 to 50 miles for the tune to adapt. Give it time and maybe you should be able to see more measurable changes
 
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Disappointed as well.

I’ve had two fails with EC P1 In 2 weeks. Fortunately, I’ve been able to reflash to stock both times.
They sent a revised tune but I’m reluctant. I have COVID stress, don’t need more. My tech savvy son he won’t help me for a third time.
Torn.
 

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Guido, are those times in seconds in your table? Something may have copied incorrectly as they all seem to be over double what they should be!

I know we spoke via convo, but my best times for 30-70 and 31-75 (3rd) is 5.6s and 6.5s respectively. Maybe your stock abarth was making more than 170hp so differenxe is less?

It's worth nudging EC as the first tune they sent me felt a little lacking in mid range coming from my Rqcechip so they tweaked it and all was well!
 
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It is bizarre as your boost curve mirrors mine at at similar temps as does AFR.

Are you having to test on steep hills? I've done my timed runs quite a bit and get consistent within 0.1s regardless of weather. There was a chap on here some time ago called Garching who with the same weight and a dynod 200hp was within 0.1s of my times, so fairly convinced I am in line with the phase 1 claims of around 175whp

Did you do the throttle relearn? If you log throttle pedal and plate position you should see max of 78 and 90 respectively.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
No hill, that's not the problem. I did a throttle reset, but have not looked at throttle logs. Will do. Thanks!
 

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Looking back at some threads...some guy with phase 2 was clocking 6.3s 31-75 with intercooler erc. Some other guy with EC phase 1 was doing 6.5s with an abarth as the starting point.

As long as you are using 10hz gps to do it you should be close to those numbers. I guess 5hz over obd would work. Maybe 2hz or less could introduce enough sampling error ?
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Good data points - we should have a database! I will try another way to measure the times. There might be lag or other in the ODB logging procedure. If I could just find a moment off work and family to do that!
 

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Haha I know the feeling!

Some guys tried to start one in 2018 but every thread turned into a tork vs EC argument so not much came of it..sadly Garching and Haz dont seem as active on here now.

I've done a few threads. Would def be good to see some of the phase 3 1446 guys log some 3rd gear times !
 
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I flashed an EC P1 tune a few days ago. Here is a comparison of Stock (dashed lines) and P1 (continuous lines). Ambient temperature was about 77F for both. The main difference between stock and P1 is boost: from 3500 RPM on, P1 has higher boost. The engine pulls well until after 6k RPM.
View attachment 77348

Now the part I am less happy about.
When I first tested the tune, I was extremely disappointed. I saw during acceleration that peak boost was the same as stock, and the acceleration times were nearly unchanged. The times have decreased, but only by a small fraction (3 % to 8 %). Part of the disappointment is that the "feel" of acceleration is unchanged, which makes sense if the max boost is the same. Those of you who are happy with P1 and have not done any measurements must have a more sensitive butt than I do :).
Stock 30-70P1 30-70DiffStock 50-70P1 50-70DiffStock 31-75P1 31-75Diff
Avg. (sec)14.413.84%7.47.23%8.688%

Clearly, the hp gains are at high RPM, so P1 does not do much to improve accelerations that start at low RPM.
I have performed additional tests today, and I am seeing higher boost, probably because the temperature has gone up by about 10F. The performance numbers, though, remain identical.

The second part I am less happy about is that I expected to get the stock map on non-sport and P1 on sport. I get exactly the same performance on both (with different pedal maps, etc.). I had requested the two maps on the request form, and wondered about the possibility to move to P1/P2 in the future. At the moment of my request, I specifically asked the following question:

I have uploaded my stock map to the shared folder, but I have a question on the Tune Request Form. What exactly does the "only one allowed" mean? One what? Would it be a bad idea to keep the stock map on non-sport and P1 on sport? If so, will I be able to throw the sport switch on and off, or are there adaptation issues?

Toby answered:
The "only one" notation means is in regards to the duel map selection. However, because you are a 124, you only really have a choice of one dual map other than stock in non sport mode (which comes automatically on the normal Phase 1 or Phase 2 maps).

I could not understand the answer, so I asked for clarification and never received a response.

Conclusion: the boost at high RPM is there, so the hp must be there too. I have tried to calculate hp differences from the accelerometer data and using PerfExpert app, but the difference between stock and P1 is too small to ascertain with my crude calculations. Part of the problem is that I do not have a level/straight/smooth road where I can safely conduct the accelerations. In any case, I am a bit disappointed that I did not get larger improvements in performance. Perhaps @MiniDreamCar was right, and I should have gone straight to P2, but as an engineer, I am conservative with machinery. What do you guys think?
I installed my p1 tune about 250 miles ago. I was hoping for a bit more drivability in the sub 4000 rpm range, but like you feeling the extra power higher up in the rev range, which is not normally where I drive. Below 4000 switching to p1 from sport feels maybe a little more dramatic then going from non-sport to sport.
I flashed an EC P1 tune a few days ago. Here is a comparison of Stock (dashed lines) and P1 (continuous lines). Ambient temperature was about 77F for both. The main difference between stock and P1 is boost: from 3500 RPM on, P1 has higher boost. The engine pulls well until after 6k RPM.
View attachment 77348

Now the part I am less happy about.
When I first tested the tune, I was extremely disappointed. I saw during acceleration that peak boost was the same as stock, and the acceleration times were nearly unchanged. The times have decreased, but only by a small fraction (3 % to 8 %). Part of the disappointment is that the "feel" of acceleration is unchanged, which makes sense if the max boost is the same. Those of you who are happy with P1 and have not done any measurements must have a more sensitive butt than I do :).
These are 3rd gear pulls:
Stock 30-70P1 30-70DiffStock 50-70P1 50-70DiffStock 31-75P1 31-75Diff
Avg. (sec)7.26.94%3.73.63%8.688%

Clearly, the hp gains are at high RPM, so P1 does not do much to improve accelerations that start at low RPM.
I have performed additional tests today, and I am seeing higher boost, probably because the temperature has gone up by about 10F. The performance numbers, though, remain identical.

The second part I am less happy about is that I expected to get the stock map on non-sport and P1 on sport. I get exactly the same performance on both (with different pedal maps, etc.). I had requested the two maps on the request form, and wondered about the possibility to move to P1/P2 in the future. At the moment of my request, I specifically asked the following question:

I have uploaded my stock map to the shared folder, but I have a question on the Tune Request Form. What exactly does the "only one allowed" mean? One what? Would it be a bad idea to keep the stock map on non-sport and P1 on sport? If so, will I be able to throw the sport switch on and off, or are there adaptation issues?

Toby answered:
The "only one" notation means is in regards to the duel map selection. However, because you are a 124, you only really have a choice of one dual map other than stock in non sport mode (which comes automatically on the normal Phase 1 or Phase 2 maps).

I could not understand the answer, so I asked for clarification and never received a response.

Conclusion: the boost at high RPM is there, so the hp must be there too. I have tried to calculate hp differences from the accelerometer data and using PerfExpert app, but the difference between stock and P1 is too small to ascertain with my crude calculations. Part of the problem is that I do not have a level/straight/smooth road where I can safely conduct the accelerations. In any case, I am a bit disappointed that I did not get larger improvements in performance. Perhaps @MiniDreamCar was right, and I should have gone straight to P2, but as an engineer, I am conservative with machinery. What do you guys think?
I installed my Phase 1 tune about 250 miles ago. Easy peasy to order and install, absolutely no issues. The online tools and support are great. One minor thing I want to follow-up on is if tune was calibrated to 93 Octane Fuel as I requested or if it even makes a difference.

I don't have any tests nor am I planning any as this is a daily driver/commuter car (Unless I do an MPG Test). My main goal was general drivability. My personal, unscientific assessment aligns with the above. Car feel stronger above 3500 RPM, however that is not where I typically drive it (Unlike my RX-8) so I don't get a huge benefit from Phase 1 in day to day driving, but it is still better then stock in every way with absolutely no drawbacks. Above 3500 switching from Sport to P1, you feel a difference and you feel more of a difference the more revs you are running.

Next step for me (When warranty expires) was to get Inter-cooler & Piping and going to Phase 2 (Since it is included in price), however going to change direction and go with cross-pipe upgrade and/or System One as I think that will 1) Provide an immediate payback in enjoyment factor, 2) I don't have to wait for warrantee expiration, 3) is a better DYI experience then EC IC install.
 

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I do agree that without actual definitions of phases and stages it all gets a bit silly comparing them! This is a problem across the whole car world.

But, definitions or not, without the need for any other mods I saw an improvement of at least 35whp and actual SECONDS knocked off acceleration times. In anyone's book that is significant

One could argue the EC P1 is much better value coming from an EU Lusso with around 150hp vs a US abarth with nearer 170?

As you are finding mini just forgetting p1 and going to p2 comes with reasonable extra cost and effort (IC if you actually want a car to support the mods you do). For many EC/Tork P1 takes the lusso to where it should be.

Of course there is more power on the table hence why p2,3 exist for those that can fit the IC and afford it.

Gotta remember that at 175whp these cars are about as quick as a 2005 Boxster, S2000 etc. Not exactly slow cars. Want more? Pay for a new Supra, Sl500, Z4 etc. Plenty roasters out there with 300+ out the box.
 
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And that's fine. But its against every single recommendation and you are likely not getting full benefit. That wont sit well with those who would go to P2 hence I consider P2 tune to include intercooler.
 

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True we are cooler here. However it only take 25c ambient for me to be hitting 24psi on p1. Thats only 75f and we have seen 82f this week. Tunes have to work in the range if temps you see.

What I REALLY want to see is you do a proper 3rd gear timed (31-75) pull using good equipment (120$ worth). I would genuinely like to know what I am missing out on that makes P1 'forgettable' and it would help you see if your tune is delivering.

It may also help Guido in his quest to determine what his tune is doing.
 

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@MiniDreamCar you make 100k a year. What's 120$ to invest in proper timing gear? You obviously love your cars (and numbers) like I do! Money where mouth is time!
 

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I thought my data was useless?
Not all of it, that one right there says you have really bad heat soak. Already told you that in your thread, but you seem to have a comprehension problem.
 
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Not all of it, that one right there says you have really bad heat soak. Already told you that in your thread, but you seem to have a comprehension problem.
I was being sarcastic...never mind 🤦🏼‍♂️
If I send that to EC, will they say that’s really bad heat soak?
 

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I make over 100k and it’s because I wouldn’t spend $120 on something like this that I’m good at my job/personal finance. In 3-4 years I’ll be making 250-400k and then I’ll buy whatever lol, but right now I just don’t care as much as you do.

If I am satisfied, why keep spending time (and money) investigating when I could be out actually driving and having fun with my other hobbies!

I think I might not even get sway bars and just get 200tw tires. If I do however experience issues or something that I can actually feel, I’ll take you up on that.
I'm so very sorry for you that you have to go to work. I tried working once but I didn't like it. So I don't work. I don't make anything a year, I don't need to of course as money is not an issue for me. Never has been, never will be.
 

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@MiniDreamCar that's fair. I also choose what to spend my money on.. I'm just suggesting that it's better to have raw data to back up opinions.

@Arthur what is your secret!?! Lol
 
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