European spec 124 and Abarth state of tune

7961 Views 32 Replies 12 Participants Last post by MotoPete, Dec 7, 2016

Joe90

Discussion Starter · Dec 5, 2016

I suspect this has been asked and answered, but I can't find it, so here we go.

1. Is the UK spec (and I assume therefore, all Europeans) engine, intake, turbo identical on the 124 and Abarth models such that the difference is only in the ECU?

2. Similarly, is the US spec 124 mechanically identical to the European model differing only in change of tuning parameters?

Although performance of the stock car is strong enough in real road use, it is a little annoying if, as I suspect, it's effectively detuned for marketing reasons. I'm toying with a remap, but obviously the worry is warranty, as although the original map can be restored, I'm led to believe it leaves a time/date stamp providing Fiat with evidence of monkeying about.

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Greg

· #2 · Dec 5, 2016

I can answer all of this.

Joe90 said:
I suspect this has been asked and answered, but I can't find it, so here we go.

1. Is the UK spec (and I assume therefore, all Europeans) engine, intake, turbo identical on the 124 and Abarth models such that the difference is only in the ECU?

Yes, except of course for the Abarth's exhaust.

Joe90 said:
2. Similarly, is the US spec 124 mechanically identical to the European model differing only in change of tuning parameters?

Yes, the US spec 124 has a different tune, everything else under the hood is the same. However I am not sure about the exhaust. The Euro 124 has a tune that's very similar to the NON sport mode tune in the US spec 500 Abarth.

Joe90 said:
Although performance of the stock car is strong enough in real road use, it is a little annoying if, as I suspect, it's effectively detuned for marketing reasons.

It's entirely for marketing reasons. As an example Fiat sells the same basic T-Jet 1.4 turbo in power ranging from 135-190hp depending on which model you buy.

Joe90 said:
I'm toying with a remap, but obviously the worry is warranty, as although the original map can be restored, I'm led to believe it leaves a time/date stamp providing Fiat with evidence of monkeying about.

First of all, at this moment I don't think anyone actually has a re-flash for sale for this car. When they do (we are working on it, and can flash the car) it will alter the flash counter, meaning that the dealer can see how many times it's been flashed. I don't know of anyone who has actually had a warranty claim denied for this, the dealers don't seem to notice it or care. I suppose in the case of a blown engine they might take a close look, but we just don't have that problem.

A good option is an interceptor type box like Euro+Drive. Once removed these leave no footprint which may give someone concerned about the warranty some peace of mind. We don't currently offer this for the Euro 124.

Greg

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SteveWy

· #3 · Dec 5, 2016

Greg ...I am a newbie Abarth owner, bought Saturday. I have noticed your name and valued input throughout many of these threads, sooo, need to know, do you have an online store or weblink to your site.

Joe90

Discussion Starter · #4 · Dec 5, 2016

Greg said:
I can answer all of this.

Yes, except of course for the Abarth's exhaust.

Yes, the US spec 124 has a different tune, everything else under the hood is the same. However I am not sure about the exhaust. The Euro 124 has a tune that's very similar to the NON sport mode tune in the US spec 500 Abarth.

It's entirely for marketing reasons. As an example Fiat sells the same basic T-Jet 1.4 turbo in power ranging from 135-190hp depending on which model you buy.

First of all, at this moment I don't think anyone actually has a re-flash for sale for this car. When they do (we are working on it, and can flash the car) it will alter the flash counter, meaning that the dealer can see how many times it's been flashed. I don't know of anyone who has actually had a warranty claim denied for this, the dealers don't seem to notice it or care. I suppose in the case of a blown engine they might take a close look, but we just don't have that problem.

A good option is an interceptor type box like Euro+Drive. Once removed these leave no footprint which may give someone concerned about the warranty some peace of mind. We don't currently offer this for the Euro 124.

Greg

Thanks Greg, that's encouraging. From what I've read on here, the US spec engine should be able to run at 200BHP without stressing it too much, so I assume that there's no reason to believe that the Euro 124 would be any different.

Do you plan to offer a product for Euro 124?

Greg

· #5 · Dec 5, 2016

SteveWy said:
Greg ...I am a newbie Abarth owner, bought Saturday. I have noticed your name and valued input throughout many of these threads, sooo, need to know, do you have an online store or weblink to your site.

Thanks. Everything we make for these cars is at www.eurocompulsion.net . We have a lot for the 124, and we are adding stuff all the time.

Greg

Joe90

Discussion Starter · #6 · Dec 5, 2016

Sorry Greg, when I ask: "Do you plan to offer a product for Euro 124?" I was referring to an interceptor box.

Greg

· #7 · Dec 5, 2016

Joe90 said:
Thanks Greg, that's encouraging. From what I've read on here, the US spec engine should be able to run at 200BHP without stressing it too much, so I assume that there's no reason to believe that the Euro 124 would be any different.

Do you plan to offer a product for Euro 124?

We do plan to offer a full product range for the Euro 124. A lot of our current products are applicable to the Euro car.

The 124's engine can easily handle 200hp. Even 250 is reasonable although at that level it needs a few supporting upgrades. My personal 500 Abarth has 300hp, and it's holding together just fine. You can find details of this on the eurocompulsion tech page.

Greg

Greg

· #8 · Dec 5, 2016

Joe90 said:
Sorry Greg, when I ask: "Do you plan to offer a product for Euro 124?" I was referring to an interceptor box.

Yes, we should have that soon, I am working on it right now.

Greg

GarchingS54

· #9 · Dec 5, 2016

Same question...

G-Tech and MazzaEngineering and the Italiens also confirmed the figures.

matbard

· #10 · Dec 5, 2016

For what I know, the Italian Abarth 124 Spider differs from the Fiat 124 Spider in:

- bigger turbo(Honeywell/Garrett A/R 46)
- mechanical limited slip diff(Abarth DAM)
- Bilstein dampers
- Brembo calipers
- dome bars
- Abarth Record Monza exhaust
- Abarth SS AT shift

GarchingS54

· #11 · Dec 5, 2016

Turbo is all the same Garrett GT1446 in A124 and F124 Spider.
Only the tune an the exhaust (no resonated midpipe) makes the difference in performance.

Joe90

Discussion Starter · #12 · Dec 6, 2016

I suspect this is a dumb question, but if the F124 uses the same components as the A500/A595/Mito QV, why would an engine map/intercept be different?

Greg

· #13 · Dec 6, 2016

Joe90 said:
I suspect this is a dumb question, but if the F124 uses the same components as the A500/A595/Mito QV, why would an engine map/intercept be different?

A lot of reasons. First and foremost is marketing. The Abarth 695 is really expensive so it has 190hp to further differentiate it from the other cars with the same engine. The Dart and 500L are heaver cars, and will often be tasked to carry 4 or 5 people and cargo. They need a little more low end grunt to get their fat 3400 pound butts moving. They don't need high rpm, so they get a little more torque than a 500 but with a 6000rpm redline (vs 6500 in the sportier cars).

For reasons like these, and a lot of others, Fiat/Alfa has quite a few different tunes for this engine.

Greg

Reactions: 1

Joe90

Discussion Starter · #14 · Dec 6, 2016

Greg said:
A lot of reasons. First and foremost is marketing. The Abarth 695 is really expensive so it has 190hp to further differentiate it from the other cars with the same engine. The Dart and 500L are heaver cars, and will often be tasked to carry 4 or 5 people and cargo. They need a little more low end grunt to get their fat 3400 pound butts moving. They don't need high rpm, so they get a little more torque than a 500 but with a 6000rpm redline (vs 6500 in the sportier cars).

For reasons like these, and a lot of others, Fiat/Alfa has quite a few different tunes for this engine.

Greg

Thanks Greg. I obviously don't understand how these things work! I would have expected that if you have a flash for a 595, you could just apply that on a 124 and bingo! your car is up to xxxHP.

matbard

· #15 · Dec 6, 2016

The T-Jet and Multiar engines are not the same

GarchingS54

· #16 · Dec 6, 2016

And I think the GT1446 isn't part of all FCA models, but importent if you want serious improvements in performance.

M7ART

· #17 · Dec 6, 2016

Prior to seeing this thread I visited my local fiat/abarth dealer earlier today. Met with the salesman from whom I previously bought my 50th anniversary spider. He told me that, certainly with Uk cars, the abarth spider and the fiat spider use different turbos. He seemed to know his stuff.

Joe90

Discussion Starter · #18 · Dec 6, 2016

Thanks all, so let me see if I've got it.

My 500 and 500C Uk Abarths would have had the smaller turbo, hence were limited to approx 170bhp with remap alone.

My 124 is a Multi-air with GT1446 turbo, and hence has the potential to be 200 plus

As they are different turbos, the maps would be different.

Have I finally grasped it?

GarchingS54

· #19 · Dec 6, 2016

The German Abarth specialists have confirmed that both FIATAs use the GT1446.
And they have tuned both to absolutely the same power (+200PS)

Ask your salesman which turbo is used in the Abarth, M7ART.

Greg

· #20 · Dec 6, 2016 (Edited)

matbard said:
The T-Jet and Multiar engines are not the same

While they are not the same, they are very similar. So similar in fact that we can flash the same basic specs like peak boost, the boost curve, fuel and timing maps etc. and get about the same power. For example we have a clone of the TF 695 tune that we put onto the US spec 500 Abarth. That tune puts out about 190 horsepower in the multiair engine and is somewhat popular. A lot of people order it from us with the 695 tune in NON sport mode and then something hotter in sport mode.

Greg

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