On paper it appears that the Fiat 1.4T (actually a 1.368) is only slightly more powerful than the Miata's 2.0. In terms of peak power they are close, the Fiat engine has 160 vs the Miata's 155, but when you look at power under the curve, it's clear that the Fiat is far more powerful, especially in the important 3000-5500rpm range.
Fiat's 1.4T vs Miata ND's 2.0 Power Comparison
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Note that the Fiat's power drops off a lot after 6000rpm. That's because it pulls out boost like crazy at high rpm. It doesn't effect performance because you adjust your shift points to accommodate the power range. In other words the range from 6000-6500 is normally only used when you have a reason not to upshift, like you are at 5800rpm and a couple seconds from braking because you are approaching a corner.
Greg
Greg
Oh, let's look at Torque. It's the same story, the Fiat kills it. Note these numbers are based on the 500 Abarth as we haven't been able to dyno a 124 yet. However the published numbers for the 500 Abarth and the NON Abarth 124 are the same.
Greg
Greg
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In stock form the Miata is faster in most contests. For example, the Miata is faster by nearly a full second in the zero to 60. In pretty much all day to day driving the Miata is faster, no turbo to spool...so while the Fiat is spooling, the Miata is already gone. See for example the instrumented tests by Car and Driver of both, see the comparison in Automobile Magazine, etc. I own both a Fiat 124 and an ND Miata, have autocrossed both. In stock form, the Miata wins for autocross easily, wins the 0-60, wins canyon driving, wins around town. The only place in day to day driving where the Fiat's torque advantage really plays it's hand is in freeway driving, if already at 70mph the turbo is ready to go and passing with a tip of the pedal is a real pleasure as it squirts to 90mph with ease.
Once BEYOND stock form is another question entirely. We found the ABARTH stock tune much more lively at the Press Day driving event than what is in our Classica124. Figure Greg and Eurocompulsion gets the Fiat to beyond 200hp at the wheels, hopefully 250 eventually... and gives all versions that lively feeling we found in the ABARTH 124 with Sport button engaged. At that point it will be an interesting contest, the Fiat will still be heavier but should have more torque everywhere. Note we took 52 pounds out of the Fiat in one day (light battery kit and front brakes), so the extra 100+ pounds of the Fiat can be cut in half easily (though same mods can save 39 pounds on the Miata which uses lighter stock battery). The Miata also responds VERY well to mods, with stock 2.0 at an exotic 13 to 1 compression it just needs our longtube header and tune to reach over 190 hp at the wheels, and over 190 ft/lbs torque (see dyno below of our ND with longtube header and tune compared to our ND when stock). Thus our ND is up from stock by over 50 HP, over 50 Ft/bs of torque...and still using stock intake. Will test our Fiat124 in stock form on the same dyno and overlay the stock graphs for comparison and do it again once the Eurocompulsion solutions are available so we can compare modded ND to modded Fiat124.
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Once BEYOND stock form is another question entirely. We found the ABARTH stock tune much more lively at the Press Day driving event than what is in our Classica124. Figure Greg and Eurocompulsion gets the Fiat to beyond 200hp at the wheels, hopefully 250 eventually... and gives all versions that lively feeling we found in the ABARTH 124 with Sport button engaged. At that point it will be an interesting contest, the Fiat will still be heavier but should have more torque everywhere. Note we took 52 pounds out of the Fiat in one day (light battery kit and front brakes), so the extra 100+ pounds of the Fiat can be cut in half easily (though same mods can save 39 pounds on the Miata which uses lighter stock battery). The Miata also responds VERY well to mods, with stock 2.0 at an exotic 13 to 1 compression it just needs our longtube header and tune to reach over 190 hp at the wheels, and over 190 ft/lbs torque (see dyno below of our ND with longtube header and tune compared to our ND when stock). Thus our ND is up from stock by over 50 HP, over 50 Ft/bs of torque...and still using stock intake. Will test our Fiat124 in stock form on the same dyno and overlay the stock graphs for comparison and do it again once the Eurocompulsion solutions are available so we can compare modded ND to modded Fiat124.
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Not to hijack the thread, but indeed good wheel choices do save weight.
Our 6UL 17x8 wheels below in Tungsten finish, designed on this chassis (perfect stock offset, zero scrub radius error).
Flow formed for strength....and just 14.8 pounds for 17x8.
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Our 6UL 17x8 wheels below in Tungsten finish, designed on this chassis (perfect stock offset, zero scrub radius error).
Flow formed for strength....and just 14.8 pounds for 17x8.
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Very interesting indeed. If I had to pick between a N/A motor making 200RWHP and a turbo motor making the same power, I'd pick N/A every day of the week. Less complexity, less heat, and more happy to rev. So if 200 RWHP is the target, I think the Miata triumphs. If we go beyond that... the 124 would be my pick.In stock form the Miata is faster in most contests. For example, the Miata is faster by nearly a full second in the zero to 60. In pretty much all day to day driving the Miata is faster, no turbo to spool...so while the Fiat is spooling, the Miata is already gone. See for example the instrumented tests by Car and Driver of both, see the comparison in Automobile Magazine, etc. I own both a Fiat 124 and an ND Miata, have autocrossed both. In stock form, the Miata wins for autocross easily, wins the 0-60, wins canyon driving, wins around town. The only place in day to day driving where the Fiat's torque advantage really plays it's hand is in freeway driving, if already at 70mph the turbo is ready to go and passing with a tip of the pedal is a real pleasure as it squirts to 90mph with ease.
Once BEYOND stock form is another question entirely. We found the ABARTH stock tune much more lively at the Press Day driving event than what is in our Classica124. Figure Greg and Eurocompulsion gets the Fiat to beyond 200hp at the wheels, hopefully 250 eventually... and gives all versions that lively feeling we found in the ABARTH 124 with Sport button engaged. At that point it will be an interesting contest, the Fiat will still be heavier but should have more torque everywhere. Note we took 52 pounds out of the Fiat in one day (light battery kit and front brakes), so the extra 100+ pounds of the Fiat can be cut in half easily (though same mods can save 39 pounds on the Miata which uses lighter stock battery). The Miata also responds VERY well to mods, with stock 2.0 at an exotic 13 to 1 compression it just needs our longtube header and tune to reach over 190 hp at the wheels, and over 190 ft/lbs torque (see dyno below of our ND with longtube header and tune compared to our ND when stock). Thus our ND is up from stock by over 50 HP, over 50 Ft/bs of torque...and still using stock intake. Will test our Fiat124 in stock form on the same dyno and overlay the stock graphs for comparison and do it again once the Eurocompulsion solutions are available so we can compare modded ND to modded Fiat124.
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Based on the Abarth 500s, if the turbo is upgraded to the GT1752S unit, then we should EASILY see mid-200s RWHP out of the 124. With a good driver, I'd expect low 5's/high 4's in the 0-60 times.
This car doesn't really have the rubber or the gearing to be a good quarter-mile car, but that's not the intent of this machine. Utilizing the Good-Win wheel/tire setup, the added grip and power would result in a VERY rewarding car for canyon-carving or road courses. Especially if we can play with the tune and remove the factory pulling of boost occurring at >5,500 RPM.
I'm excited to see the results when the aftermarket works in conjunction to extract every ounce of performance from this car. Should be a blast.
I think that stock vs. stock the Miata/MX5 is quicker due to gearing, at least that's the way the specs look to me. Once modded to the point that we run into serious traction limitations in first, the MX5's lower gearing will become a moot point in the stop light grand prix.
Greg
Greg
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