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Another example of how Forge themselves are screwed up. And @sharkcohen may be right. I ordered my WGA directly from forgemotorsport.com and the box says FMACFPEVO-US on it. I know the WGA I received does not accept the larger 048 spring, only the 049 spring. When I contacted them directly about the inability to set crack pressure below 13 PSI with the yellow spring they argued with me why I would possibly want to do that if I'm running 25 PSI boost. They insisted I should have a crack pressure of 25 PSI! The guy finally gave up and said he was putting the green spring in the mail to me. Maybe Turbosmart knows what the **** they are doing?
Steve, I’m considering jumping to Turbosmart. It’s looking like a well designed product. Sadly, it’s diaphragm, not piston. Maybe my Forge unit with 13 psi crack will be fine, but I’m going to talk that over with Toby.
 

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Steve, I’m considering jumping to Turbosmart. It’s looking like a well designed product. Sadly, it’s diaphragm, not piston. Maybe my Forge unit with 13 psi crack will be fine, but I’m going to talk that over with Toby.
Let me know how that goes. I'm not doing another engine mod until (if) I get my tune squared away. I've already taken off the PTP turbo blanket and the Forge Intake Pressure Compensation Valve. The turbo blanket will probably go back on one day but I doubt the IPCV will.
 

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Perhaps I’m missing something? Or Just confused?

As long as the “crack pressure” Is the agreed upon 13 lbs. shouldn’t that be all we need, regardless of which type of WGA we have?

Aloha Mike

Ps @Chainringtattoo what’s the issues you are having with the IPCV?
 

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Discussion Starter #164
Perhaps I’m missing something? Or Just confused?

As long as the “crack pressure” Is the agreed upon 13 lbs. shouldn’t that be all we need, regardless of which type of WGA we have?

Aloha Mike

Ps @Chainringtattoo what’s the issues you are having with the IPCV?

@Mike34
He doesnt like the sound it makes.
 

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Discussion Starter #165
Steve, I’m considering jumping to Turbosmart. It’s looking like a well designed product. Sadly, it’s diaphragm, not piston. Maybe my Forge unit with 13 psi crack will be fine, but I’m going to talk that over with Toby.
I have the turbosmart WGA that im going to install on my mini.
Its a very nice unit but it is a diaphragm unit which will require more maintenance.
This will be a major upgrade for me because it changes the mini's WGA from running on vacuum to running on pressure with an electronic boost controller.
 

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Perhaps I’m missing something? Or Just confused?

As long as the “crack pressure” Is the agreed upon 13 lbs. shouldn’t that be all we need, regardless of which type of WGA we have?

Aloha Mike

Ps @Chainringtattoo what’s the issues you are having with the IPCV?
If Toby agrees that 13 will be ok, then I’ll keep my Forge. I do like everything I'm seeing with the Turbosmart, except that it is diaphragm, not piston. The Turbosmart has spring combos that allow for adjusting the crack pressure in increments of 1 psi, and there's no mystery around preload. With the Turbosmart, it's always 2 mm of preload and you are done.
 

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Perhaps I’m missing something? Or Just confused?

As long as the “crack pressure” Is the agreed upon 13 lbs. shouldn’t that be all we need, regardless of which type of WGA we have?

Aloha Mike

Ps @Chainringtattoo what’s the issues you are having with the IPCV?
Like @Phillip33 said, I just don't like the noises it makes. There were no performance issues although I can't tell a difference with it off so not sure how much real performance it adds, if any. I just couldn't stand the squirrel noises.

If Toby agrees that 13 will be ok, then I’ll keep my Forge.
The Forge unit is a very nicely built unit and I will be keep it also unless I figure out something else works better. I am currently running the green spring with a maxed out CRACK PRESSURE of 11 PSI. I briefly tried switching back to the yellow spring which starts at 13 PSI to see if it made any difference. It did and in a negative way. It would pop off 5 PSI instantly at full boost which I could feel happen through the seat as well as see on the boost gauge so I switched back to the green (softest) spring. Maybe I'll just put the stock one back in and see what happens.
 

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Like @Phillip33 said, I just don't like the noises it makes. There were no performance issues although I can't tell a difference with it off so not sure how much real performance it adds, if any. I just couldn't stand the squirrel noises.



The Forge unit is a very nicely built unit and I will be keep it also unless I figure out something else works better. I am currently running the green spring with a maxed out CRACK PRESSURE of 11 PSI. I briefly tried switching back to the yellow spring which starts at 13 PSI to see if it made any difference. It did and in a negative way. It would pop off 5 PSI instantly at full boost which I could feel happen through the seat as well as see on the boost gauge so I switched back to the green (softest) spring. Maybe I'll just put the stock one back in and see what happens.
I'm guessing that your tune is calibrated to control the wastegate with that Green spring, which is why you can't just swap to the Yellow and 13 psi. I think if you change back to the first tune Toby sent you for the Forge unit and drop in the Yellow spring, and then have him make any necessary adjustments, it would work for you. But, I'm thinking that the U76 crap is your real hurdle right now. I hope that rolling over to another software version helps you. I think it will.
 

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I'm guessing that your tune is calibrated to control the wastegate with that Green spring, which is why you can't just swap to the Yellow and 13 psi. I think if you change back to the first tune Toby sent you for the Forge unit and drop in the Yellow spring, and then have him make any necessary adjustments, it would work for you. But, I'm thinking that the U76 crap is your real hurdle right now. I hope that rolling over to another software version helps you. I think it will.
I think we'll revisit all that since we are about to completely start over from scratch anyway. I've just been so busy lately that I haven't had a chance to get started on it.
 

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Following. All done with P3 stuffed turbo and tune installs, just completed alfa 4c coil install. Thinking this is my next install. Concerned that springs are not settled science and depend on software version, exhaust setup, and how the tune has been set. Maybe i should get the vaitrix boost gauge kit first so once i dive in this pool i can confirm there are results. Pretty happy with the car where it is, but if there are a couple psi more boost available, would i be happier?
 

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Following. All done with P3 stuffed turbo and tune installs, just completed alfa 4c coil install. Thinking this is my next install. Concerned that springs are not settled science and depend on software version, exhaust setup, and how the tune has been set. Maybe i should get the vaitrix boost gauge kit first so once i dive in this pool i can confirm there are results. Pretty happy with the car where it is, but if there are a couple psi more boost available, would i be happier?
Rub it in!!:ROFLMAO::LOL:😁
 

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Lol, not in a rush just yet. I am letting you wizards figure it all out and get the kinks out. I can only imagine how well it runs. I find it funny, since I had the EC box with P1 before the car arrived, and I thought it made a nice difference. Then came P2 with P1 in the normal mode that now NEVER gets used, and the car took a very nice leap in performance, so I can only imagine what you all have now does to performance. I can't even conceive driving it OEM anymore.
 

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Following. All done with P3 stuffed turbo and tune installs, just completed alfa 4c coil install. Thinking this is my next install. Concerned that springs are not settled science and depend on software version, exhaust setup, and how the tune has been set. Maybe i should get the vaitrix boost gauge kit first so once i dive in this pool i can confirm there are results. Pretty happy with the car where it is, but if there are a couple psi more boost available, would i be happier?
These springs will always be a level of trial and error. The general approach is, you run the spring you think you need, then you datalog. You then watch the datalog and compare commanded boost to actual boost. If you see yourself losing more than you should, especially at higher RPMs, add preload to the WGA.

On the Cruze, the yellow spring works fine with stock turbo, stock or tuned engines. As soon as we started running bigger turbos, the yellow spring did work, but we started losing boost in the top end and had to add preload. We had people adding 12 full turns of preload to the WGA. The end result was we had to move up to a stiffer spring (which we are still figuring out). Next one up is the blue spring.

Run too high of a preload or too stiff of a spring and you run into overboost issues. Too light of a spring, or too little preload, and you have underboost issues. It's going to take a bit of trial and error for a given tune and set of mods before you figure out exactly how much preload you need but we should be able to figure out at least which color spring to run.
 

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Thanks much. Step one in process. waiting on my vaitrix boost gauge now
 

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Remember, the spring pressure is what keeps the wastegate arm shut. The more boost you run, the more power you make, the higher your manifold pressure will be trying to spin that exhaust turbine, and the more WGA spring pressure you need to keep that arm shut so you don't leak boost. The ECU calibration may also need adjustment to accomodate a stiffer WGA spring.
 

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These springs will always be a level of trial and error. The general approach is, you run the spring you think you need, then you datalog. You then watch the datalog and compare commanded boost to actual boost. If you see yourself losing more than you should, especially at higher RPMs, add preload to the WGA.

On the Cruze, the yellow spring works fine with stock turbo, stock or tuned engines. As soon as we started running bigger turbos, the yellow spring did work, but we started losing boost in the top end and had to add preload. We had people adding 12 full turns of preload to the WGA. The end result was we had to move up to a stiffer spring (which we are still figuring out). Next one up is the blue spring.

Run too high of a preload or too stiff of a spring and you run into overboost issues. Too light of a spring, or too little preload, and you have underboost issues. It's going to take a bit of trial and error for a given tune and set of mods before you figure out exactly how much preload you need but we should be able to figure out at least which color spring to run.
I found in my testing that the EC and Tork tunes acted up with stiffer springs, as does the stock tune. You really need a boost gauge to see it. When I ran a stiffer spring the boost would peak fast then immediately dump 5 PSI. If you paid attention you might feel the dump but with a boost gauge it was clear as day. When I changed back to the green (softest) spring that behavior went away. However, even the green spring is too stiff for the stock tune as the stock tune will also dump boost off the top, leading to me to conclude that a Forge WGA is not appropriate for an untuned car. Or at least my untuned car.
 

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Forge 049 spring results as follows
Spring color verified crack pressure (minimum pressure for the rod to start moving) and spring wire diameter

Green - 7 PSI - 0.0800 in.
Purple - 9 PSI - 0.0860 in.
Yellow - 12 PSI - 0.0915 in. (Included with the WGA)
Yellow - 12 PSI - 0.0915 in.
Blue - 15 PSI - 0.0980 in.
Red - 19 PSI - 0.1030 in.

So it looks like the new Purple spring is what we need to start with now.
Well, it seems Forge are determined to continue the confusion. I ordered the WGA and spring kit from EC to go with the Turbo. Received a WGA in a blue box labelled FMACFPEVO-US with a yellow spring installed. According to my calipers, this has a wire diameter of 0.096 in.

The spring kit is labelled T2 049, but only contained 4 springs (no purple). The Forge UK site says it should include 5. Wire diameters are:

Green - 0.0845 in
Yellow - 0.0960 in (same as the one it shipped with)
Blue - 0.1020 in
Red - 0.1070 in.

I'll measure crack pressures this afternoon
 

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The springs in the spring kit are the right size at least.
 

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Well, it seems Forge are determined to continue the confusion. I ordered the WGA and spring kit from EC to go with the Turbo. Received a WGA in a blue box labelled FMACFPEVO-US with a yellow spring installed. According to my calipers, this has a wire diameter of 0.096 in.

The spring kit is labelled T2 049, but only contained 4 springs (no purple). The Forge UK site says it should include 5. Wire diameters are:

Green - 0.0845 in
Yellow - 0.0960 in (same as the one it shipped with)
Blue - 0.1020 in
Red - 0.1070 in.

I'll measure crack pressures this afternoon
Sounds like you got the “old” springs. I don’t think it really matters, Toby can work with either the “old” yellow spring or the purple spring, just let him know what you are using.
 
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