Just wondering AT WHAT RPM (i.e. exhaust pressure) does the Record Monza spring loaded valve begin to open, diverting some of the exhaust from the muffler to the straight through tips?
How the Record Monza Operates Question
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Pete, l'm thinking about getting a RM exhaust if they become available again. I understand fully how the valve works and how to keep it from sticking. What I don't know is how much exhaust gas flow it takes to open the valve on a properly operating Record Monza. Hence, my question about at what engine rpm does the valve start to open.
Knowing the engine rpm will allow me to make a good estimate of road speed in different gears at which the exhaust will switch from quieter to louder.
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An unusual question where the answer depends on........Wastegate Actuator with preload set, affected by the Turbo driven turbine spinning as gases flow, driving shaft and returning said gases to air compressor wheel, creating boost- air pressure in intake manifold above ambient, so the turbo boost is around 2000 +rpm standard, effected by what updates you have.... The Turbo durability (limits) and control of ECU, Boost Solenoid, Wastegate Actuator throttle, hence the questions are usually about Boost. There is a long and great thread created by "Murat124" called
"Wastegate Actuator" that covers the whole subject and that leaves just the reason why "sound" is mentioned in last thread as that is what most folk want a definition on. Eurocompulsion did a great article taking you through the whole subject, Forge Wastegate Actuators and colour springs are discussed in detail in the"Murat124" thread but again, for most folk it's the sound and how efficient the system is and that is where "Good-Win" come in..........
Very Recently answering in another thread about "RM exhausts Brian Goodwin explained fully "the faults" with spring and welds, showed photographic evidence and explain how performance is lost by those welds, the Bore and kinks.
Well worth further research before you commit I would think. Cheers
ron
"Wastegate Actuator" that covers the whole subject and that leaves just the reason why "sound" is mentioned in last thread as that is what most folk want a definition on. Eurocompulsion did a great article taking you through the whole subject, Forge Wastegate Actuators and colour springs are discussed in detail in the"Murat124" thread but again, for most folk it's the sound and how efficient the system is and that is where "Good-Win" come in..........
Very Recently answering in another thread about "RM exhausts Brian Goodwin explained fully "the faults" with spring and welds, showed photographic evidence and explain how performance is lost by those welds, the Bore and kinks.
Well worth further research before you commit I would think. Cheers
ron
Found this video which you may have seen.Bing video
Appears to be completely analog.
I will add that on mine, it sounds like the valve is open when the car is cold because it is really loud and then begins to mellow as things heat up. I assume that is because it runs at a higher rev when cold and puts more pressure to open the valve up.
Appears to be completely analog.
I will add that on mine, it sounds like the valve is open when the car is cold because it is really loud and then begins to mellow as things heat up. I assume that is because it runs at a higher rev when cold and puts more pressure to open the valve up.
The Record Monza is a good exhaust. The valve is always partially open, even at idle, it's not exactly open or closed, it just has varying degrees open to vary the amount of exhaust that bypasses the muffler. That way it sounds great all the time, but isn't too loud at lighter throttle positions like when cruising down the highway.
I really like mine, I think it's the best sounding exhaust for these cars, I like the way it looks, and it doesn't drone on the highway, it's quite pleasant to have conversations or listen to music in the car on a trip. In terms of performance no axle back exhaust adds even one horsepower to this car, so they are all about the same in that regard.
Greg
I really like mine, I think it's the best sounding exhaust for these cars, I like the way it looks, and it doesn't drone on the highway, it's quite pleasant to have conversations or listen to music in the car on a trip. In terms of performance no axle back exhaust adds even one horsepower to this car, so they are all about the same in that regard.
Greg
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Found it......Thread by "CardigansFan" entitled "Which Exhaust Upgrade ?"........yet another conversation about Record Monza v Goodwin and the thread that Brian Goodwin lays out the pros and cons.........Cheers
2017 Fiat 124 Spider Abarth, fully loaded from the factory, with just a wee bit of aftermarket mods.
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When the OP asked a question about the performance characteristics of the Record Monza, why are folks going out of their way to steer the conversation into considering alternatives that they have a personal bias towards? The question was specifically aimed at performance characteristics of the RM.
If the OP decides the RM isn't going to be their choice, there are lots of threads on here that speak to the alternatives, and what owners like about them. Although I personally own a RM, have had zero performance issues with it, and do personally like the way it behaves.... my hyping of the product doesn't answer her question. And discussing another exhaust that doesn't provide the same functionality doesn't help either. The Goodwin version is the equivalent of a RM with the valve welded in fixed in place. It's a fixed solution with no ability to generate a variable tone that doesn't involve mechanical additions or subtractions to the system. Nothing wrong with that at all, but they're not the same thing. Apples and oranges.
People have said the Goodwin is quieter than the RM, but if you have an Abarth model, the stock exhaust is also tamer than the RM.... but for those with the Lusso or Classica, then the RM vs Goodwin is a valid conversation as they're a different stock exhaust configuration. But, the OP is from an Abarth owner, so....
I think Greg's answer comes closest to the question being asked. The valve is never fully closed, and some exhaust gases always flow through all four pipes. Pressure will push the valve open further, and the RPM at which that occurs will vary. It's fair to say that some people have has problems with the flap seizing in one position or another, but that's because it's a moving mechanical component that requires maintenance. If you never maintain your fluid levels, tire pressures, brake pad and tire wear, you'll have issues with those as well. A dab of anitseize compound is the maintenance that's needed, and if used, you won't have an issue with the system.
When first started in colder temperatures, my vehicle will initially idle around 1200 RPM and the RM is louder. After about 30 seconds, the engine begins to warm up and the idle starts to climb down to around 750, and the exhaust note tones down along with it. As long as I'm not applying agressive throttle, it remains relatively tame.... better tone that the stock exhaust on the Abarth, but not horribly loud. But, if I agressively mash the throttle, it opens up and growls like a wounded beast, and that's the sound I enjoy hearing come out of it. At regular cruising speed on the highway, it's back running in it's quieter mode, and the RPMs would be in the range of 3000 to 4500. If I downshift to 5th or 4th and apply throttle to pass a line of vehicles, the RM will open up and make itself known again. In reflection, I think it comes into play relative to when the turbo is generating boost, as opposed to a specfic RPM band. If you run the Abarth in Sport Mode, the boost comes on lower in the RPM range, and the RM also becomes more agressive as a result.
So to give the Reader's Digest condensed version, iIf I do a gradual acceleration as I work through the gears, it will remain in the quieter state. If I come onto the throttle hard and the turbo spools up, it will be loud. It's more to do with boost pressure than RPMs.
If the OP decides the RM isn't going to be their choice, there are lots of threads on here that speak to the alternatives, and what owners like about them. Although I personally own a RM, have had zero performance issues with it, and do personally like the way it behaves.... my hyping of the product doesn't answer her question. And discussing another exhaust that doesn't provide the same functionality doesn't help either. The Goodwin version is the equivalent of a RM with the valve welded in fixed in place. It's a fixed solution with no ability to generate a variable tone that doesn't involve mechanical additions or subtractions to the system. Nothing wrong with that at all, but they're not the same thing. Apples and oranges.
People have said the Goodwin is quieter than the RM, but if you have an Abarth model, the stock exhaust is also tamer than the RM.... but for those with the Lusso or Classica, then the RM vs Goodwin is a valid conversation as they're a different stock exhaust configuration. But, the OP is from an Abarth owner, so....
I think Greg's answer comes closest to the question being asked. The valve is never fully closed, and some exhaust gases always flow through all four pipes. Pressure will push the valve open further, and the RPM at which that occurs will vary. It's fair to say that some people have has problems with the flap seizing in one position or another, but that's because it's a moving mechanical component that requires maintenance. If you never maintain your fluid levels, tire pressures, brake pad and tire wear, you'll have issues with those as well. A dab of anitseize compound is the maintenance that's needed, and if used, you won't have an issue with the system.
When first started in colder temperatures, my vehicle will initially idle around 1200 RPM and the RM is louder. After about 30 seconds, the engine begins to warm up and the idle starts to climb down to around 750, and the exhaust note tones down along with it. As long as I'm not applying agressive throttle, it remains relatively tame.... better tone that the stock exhaust on the Abarth, but not horribly loud. But, if I agressively mash the throttle, it opens up and growls like a wounded beast, and that's the sound I enjoy hearing come out of it. At regular cruising speed on the highway, it's back running in it's quieter mode, and the RPMs would be in the range of 3000 to 4500. If I downshift to 5th or 4th and apply throttle to pass a line of vehicles, the RM will open up and make itself known again. In reflection, I think it comes into play relative to when the turbo is generating boost, as opposed to a specfic RPM band. If you run the Abarth in Sport Mode, the boost comes on lower in the RPM range, and the RM also becomes more agressive as a result.
So to give the Reader's Digest condensed version, iIf I do a gradual acceleration as I work through the gears, it will remain in the quieter state. If I come onto the throttle hard and the turbo spools up, it will be loud. It's more to do with boost pressure than RPMs.
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Come on CD....We opened up the conversation that's all, been done hundreds of times before, you have done it yourself, no foul, no harm done. Can't speak for anyone else but myself here and my intention "as always" is to share what I know as fact and give the OP extra information to help them decide". I do support and promote the "Good-Win" product as I researched them all, including the "Record Monza" (which is ditched by many 124 Abarth UK buyers on purchase in favour of other systems as are those 22 lbs+ alloys). As a proud 124 "Classica" owner and extremely happy end user of a "Good-Win" exhaust system then of course, like any motoring enthusiast, in conversation I will ALWAYS praise that system, as you would your "Record Monza" system I am sure. The final point I also pointed out in order to explain to the OP why folk were talking about these other points, being...."It's more to do with boost pressure than RPM's." Cheers
ron
ron
It's human nature to laud something you take pride in. I don't think anyone is trying to be a shill. When you spend a lot of money on something you want to believe it is the best and get others to agree with you. I agree with Brexit! in that we give biased advice, and while sometimes it IS snake oil, it has been proven that even placebos do work. We are all tuners here that can't leave well enough alone. Now, let me tell you about the air freshener in installed that gave me a 5HP boost...😝
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You "MUST" post the link for that "Air Freshener", sounds..."The Business" ! 😄
OK, I lied about the air freshener, but I definitely feel like a bad ass driving the Spider. That is real!
In all seriousness in reference to the original intent of the thread, I hated the Monza at first because I thought it was too loud, but now I understand better how it functions, I actually really like it.
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And "I think" the reason that the Record Monza is unloved in the UK by many is that same reason "Noise". Whereas many parts of the USA and Canada have vast open spaces it is a plain fact that we do not, therefore, starting and running a noisy exhaust system other than in the countryside attracts bad press and relationships with neighbours, driving through the city, towns and villages (also compact) does bring out a negative attitude in the locals, and sadly...for the grown ups the Record Monza has been identified in the national motoring press as "Offensive", so, other than the ongoing "discussions" about Bore, Kinks, Welds and Spring assembly of the Record Monza versus the equally supported "Good-Win" exhaust system and the factual evidence of it's merits displayed by Brian Goodwin himself...It's down to horses for courses....................
The one thing that stands out here "for me" is the fact that within our Membership hardly anyone promotes anything other than Record Monza or Good-Win Exhaust systems so as a group of enthusiasts, collectively we are doing a reasonable job of assisting new members and those seeking to upgrade in finding the Modifications that deliver.....
Great conversation in the end, Cheers
ron
Here in Michigan (the former car capital of the world) cars are still king and Michigan has very lax laws regarding motor vehicles. No emission tests for licensing, very little enforcement on national standards. Harley Davidsons are the norm and usually have zero muffler "for safety reasons." No one thinks twice about the sound of my car. I'm just a quiet person by nature and don't like to annoy others with the sound as I try not to be a hypocrite.
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We're like Magpies and like shiny things on our cars when it comes to exhausts.... We have two Record Monzas, 1 on my A124, and 1 on my son's A595 Competizione. We love chrome quads, and we can clear our cul de sac of neighbours and all bird population if we both do cold starts at same time.... What's not to like....... plus the A595 has an electric flap connected to Sport button... But loads of A595 also get their exhausts swapped for even louder ones... We're fine with the RMs
Are those the “retro” wheels on the 124?
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Yes, H&R 15mm spacers to clear Brembos
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