Thanks XR - really appreciate your tutorials on here.
No plans on changing the fluid in the rear until I figure out exactly what it is. As far as I can tell, it is a 75W-90 GL-5 gear oil with friction modifiers specific for the type of LSD used in the Abarth. Because LSD performance can be altered with the use of different fluids that have different friction properties, I'll be doing more research on that one before I touch it. It may just require a slip-lock additive to a standard gear oil like many limited slip differentials do, but I'm not ready to test that yet.Great tutorial. Looks like a very easy project. I needed a project tomorrow before a go on a long drive on Sunday. Do you have any plans on changing the fluid in the rear. I would like to have all fluids changed to Amsoil. Been using their oils for years with great results. Motor was done at 1000 and now the trans at 2000. Thanks again.
You need a pump of some kind, or the fluid is not getting in there. Another method I've seen people use is get one of those big black suction pumps you can find at most hardware stores and use that method, but cross-contamination with whatever was in there before becomes a concern, plus they tend to leak and make a mess. That pump really makes filling longitudinal transmissions and differentials a breeze.Nice job, XR! Thanks for your time and effort to post this tutorial.
#1, Looking at the photos, I'm guessing it will be difficult at best to get the new juice in the tranny without a pump, correct? I like the idea of that pump, I didn't know such a tool existed.
#2, You know I've got my overbuilt wood ramps for getting under the car. The drain bolt appears to be on the driver's side. If I were to get the passenger wheels up on another layed-flat piece of 2x lumber (elevating the right side anorher 1.5"), do you think it would drain out any more old fluid?
Watch for PM.
I don't want to hijack this tutorial thread, but everything I come across for the standard (not the LSD) rear diff. states "hypoid gear oil SG1" which the interwebs come back with as Mazda's rear diff. oil, but states no viscosity ratings. Actually, I don't think it was stating a difference between the LSD and the standard differential, not at AmeriDan's blog anyway, but his blog states 75W/90 GL5 (without explanation of the origin of that rating). One of my local Fiat parts desks wants $39/qt for the trans. oil, and $50/qt for the rear diff!! They're drunk! This was not the dealer I bought the car from.No plans on changing the fluid in the rear until I figure out exactly what it is. As far as I can tell, it is a 75W-90 GL-5 gear oil with friction modifiers specific for the type of LSD used in the Abarth. Because LSD performance can be altered with the use of different fluids that have different friction properties, I'll be doing more research on that one before I touch it. It may just require a slip-lock additive to a standard gear oil like many limited slip differentials do, but I'm not ready to test that yet.
Rear differentials would most likely be GL-5. GL ratings are used to differentiate EP (extreme pressure) additive levels. Because the decomposition of extreme pressure additives under heat can cause accelerated soft metal wear (re: synchros), manual transmissions typically use lower concentrations. GL-3 typically has 3% EP additives, GL-4 has 4% EP additives, and GL-5 oils have 6.5% EP additives. Higher concentrations are used in rear differentials as there is no concern with soft metal wear. For conventional open differentials, a 75W-90 GL-5 gear oil is perfectly suitable. Mazda may be using a lower viscosity GL-5 gear oil for fuel efficiency purposes, but this isn't likely to be anything special. For the non-Abarth rear end, a synthetic GL-5 75W-90 gear oil will be perfectly suitable. AMSOIL's costs a lot less than $37.44 a quart.I don't want to hijack this tutorial thread, but everything I come across for the standard (not the LSD) rear diff. states "hypoid gear oil SG1" which the interwebs come back with as Mazda's rear diff. oil, but states no viscosity ratings. Actually, I don't think it was stating a difference between the LSD and the standard differential, not at AmeriDan's blog anyway, but his blog states 75W/90 GL5 (without explanation of the origin of that rating). One of my local Fiat parts desks wants $39/qt for the trans. oil, and $50/qt for the rear diff!! They're drunk! This was not the dealer I bought the car from.
I just called a local Mazda shop, asking about rear diff. oil for a 2016 Mazda MX5, and he stated "Rear Differential Hypoid Gear Oil SG1, $37.44/qt". He said the bottle was not marked for viscosity or GL/4 or /05. Huh.
I know, right?? Couldn't believe how much crud was on the plug....probably change both (engine and trans oil at 1200 miles) especially after seeing the metal flakes on the magnetic plug. I shutter every time I see/think of that!!!
I use a Harbor Freight one. With lowered springs it's still not enough to clear the front lip and reach the front sub frame crossmember for lifting, so run the front of the car up a 3" 'ramp'. Goes to the rear sub frame no problem. If I recall it was about $100 for a 3 ton low profile jack (it's very heavy!)....
Speaking of which, anyone got a recommendation for a trolley jack that works well with the Spider? ...
Viscosity might be assumed as being a 75W-90 based on previous models. They might go thinner for fuel efficiency, in which case going thicker won't harm but a tiny fraction of a mile per gallon, but they won't go thicker and don't need to.According to the FSM:
Rear differential oil: 0.63 Quarts / 0.6 Liters: MOPAR Long Life Hypoid Gear Oil for FIAT Spider
Limited slip differential oil: 0.63 Quarts / 0.6 Liters: Mopar Long Life Limited Slip Additive for FIAT Spider*
* Additive is contained within the specified gear oil for the rear differential.
The same p/n is listed for both (...589AA)
I see 75/90 being thrown around a lot on the ND forums as far as viscocity, but I haven't seen anything official from MoPar saying what it is.
Looks that way. The table had the same p/n for both descriptions beside the standard and LSD diffs, even though they were both specified individually. Looks like draining the diff is part of its removal, so that appears to be the only "official" reason for needing to fill it up again, ever (lol). And on the 75W90, you're probably right. I don't think you'd go heavier (80/90, 75/140) in a small car application, and there isn't much available that's lighter, at least commercially in the US, in a GL-5, like 75/80 or 75/85....that the fluid has the LSD additive required in both cases, even though it isn't needed for the non-LSD transmission. Am I correct on this analysis?
I do believe that 2.2 quarts is more of an arbitrary amount since the fill plug is also the level plug. In addition, there may be areas in the transmission already holding oil, so to reach the 2.2 quart capacity, you may need less than 2.2 quarts. Also, I agree that how level your car is when performing this service may also affect how much fluid goes in. Manual transmissions are fairly simple; they are lubricated through direct contact as opposed to a pump, so as long as you're generally in the ballpark, you won't see any negative effects.I just finished the manual transmission oil change, full of Amsoil now. Using the Amsoil pump was a good idea, although honestly, I wish my car would have been higher off the ground. My drive-on ramp system (all 4 wheels 7 inches above the ground, ramps are 10 feet long, car level to the ground) worked great but any lower and I would not have been able to shimmy all the way to the tranny, which is about dead center under the car. Having it higher would have allowed an easier time with the pump system, too. Now, if I used jack stands rather than full length ramps, I could have made access from the side of the car rather than the front or rear end. I went under from the front. Lesson learned.
Anyway, my tech question/comment. I pumped in fresh gear oil from the third bottle until I got a steady trickle of oil leaking out of the fill hole, leaking slowly for several more seconds after removing the pump tube and inserting the fill plug. From the first 2 bottles I pumped until nothing but air came out. Following XR's tutorial, afterward I drained the pump and the two empty bottles into the third, nearly full bottle. That third bottle now shows dead-on at 28 ounces in the bottle, 4 ounces under the quart mark. And I bet a better part of an ounce trickled out of the fill hole. This being the case, 2.2 quarts are not in the tranny. 2+ are, though. A.K.A. 2 liters
My theory- the transmission needs 2 quarts (or rather 2 liters) for proper operation. 2.2 quarts is an arbitrary amount to get oil high enough to spill out of the fill hole, assuring the mechanic that he's fully filled the transmission. Agreed?
Who would worry about being 2-3 ounces under 2.2 quarts? (2.2 quarts equals 2.08 liters.)
I bet if I had the front wheels only up on ramps, or the front of the car on jack stands, I could have put in 2.2 quarts due to the tranny fill hole being marginally higher than mine was sitting level to the ground.