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Discussion Starter #1
I was advised that I was not driving hard enough when the exhaust valve in cylinder 3 burned twice. I use my car for long commutes daily and I think I drive at regular pace considering I'm putting a lot of miles on it already. Should I floor it once in a while? or redline it? how often? once a week? Just want some pretty specific advice from the experts here. I would greatly appreciate any feedback.
 

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Where Do you keep your revs as you drive. I hear some people say they very seldom rev over 3K. This is not good for the engine. Neither is red lining in every gear. The engine is designed and seems to thrive for me in the 3-5K range. I very seldom let the revs drop below 3K and usually shift at 5-6K. I would not consider this hard driving. Every once and a while I hit the rev limiter...but not on purpose. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I usually just drive around 3K because I was thinking I'm already driving lots of miles so I don't wanna put too much stress on the car. Am I doing more damage by doing that?
 

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In a way, yes. With how lean most cars are set for due to emissions, you need to get more gas in there (lower AFR) sometimes to cool things down on the exhaust side. Giving the car some hard pulls also gets the boost up to exercise the waste gate and divert along with them learning the positions over a wide range of acceleration. You want the car to have a wide range of "knowledge" and not give it a short memory.

Greg also mentioned that you may have a marginal or even slightly clogged injector in #3. It could be running leaner than the others and might be a cause of the same burned valves. Without pulling them to have them flow tested, you won't really know for sure though. I have no idea if Fiat does flow testing to make matched sets at build time or they just grab whatever in the bin,plug them in, and you have variation of tolerances. The 4 new OEM ones I bought for my rebuild have no paperwork saying they are a set or tested flow data. The higher flow set I bought for use after initial break in came with a complete flow test chart for all 4, the timing and offset data for tuning, and shows that they are almost identical across the range.

In short, drive it like you stole it sometimes!
 

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In a way, yes. With how lean most cars are set for due to emissions, you need to get more gas in there (lower AFR) sometimes to cool things down on the exhaust side. Giving the car some hard pulls also gets the boost up to exercise the waste gate and divert along with them learning the positions over a wide range of acceleration. You want the car to have a wide range of "knowledge" and not give it a short memory.

Greg also mentioned that you may have a marginal or even slightly clogged injector in #3. It could be running leaner than the others and might be a cause of the same burned valves. Without pulling them to have them flow tested, you won't really know for sure though. I have no idea if Fiat does flow testing to make matched sets at build time or they just grab whatever in the bin,plug them in, and you have variation of tolerances. The 4 new OEM ones I bought for my rebuild have no paperwork saying they are a set or tested flow data. The higher flow set I bought for use after initial break in came with a complete flow test chart for all 4, the timing and offset data for tuning, and shows that they are almost identical across the range.

In short, drive it like you stole it sometimes!
Thank you for your advice. and Yes, define "sometimes". I tried doing research on turbos and it says warm up and cool down after driving so I did like 1 to 2minutes especially cool downs. I never used to do that. I always put premium gas and keep oil change appointments with the dealer.
 

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Hahaha, I suppose sometimes is a bit subjective. That would be less for me and more often for you. Maybe once a trip, say as you are merging onto a highway or want to overtake someone to pass, get on it. Put the hammer down and shift like you are in a race, enjoy it! Once you get the bug, you will do it more often.

There is a blue "undertemp" light on the dash, wait for that to go out before and you don't have to worry about cooling the turbo by idling before shutdown like the old days. These girls have a pump that circulates the coolant through the turbo after shutdown until it reaches its defined temp setpoint. You can hear it running after shut down and if you open the hood, you will see the reservoir tank bubbling and gurgling as it is flowing through.
 

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Think of it like a rechargeable battery, you don't want to always be topping it off at 70-80% usage left to 100% because you actually degrade the entire cell memory and you lose capacity. Best practice is to use every drop you can and then charge to full. Same with the car, 3K all the time is no bueno. The turbo doesn't even spool up in a stock car until 3500. Gotta exercise and keep everything limber, use all 6500RPMs you are given. Bang it off the rev limiter, it doesn't hurt anything (other than elapsed time down the strip!), that's why its a limiter!

You purchased an Italian-styled Roadster, treat it as such and enjoy it. Wanna gingerly cruise to and from work? Buy a Prius.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Think of it like a rechargeable battery, you don't want to always be topping it off at 70-80% usage left to 100% because you actually degrade the entire cell memory and you lose capacity. Best practice is to use every drop you can and then charge to full. Same with the car, 3K all the time is no bueno. The turbo doesn't even spool up in a stock car until 3500. Gotta exercise and keep everything limber, use all 6500RPMs you are given. Bang it off the rev limiter, it doesn't hurt anything (other than elapsed time down the strip!), that's why its a limiter!

You purchased an Italian-styled Roadster, treat it as such and enjoy it. Wanna gingerly cruise to and from work? Buy a Prius.
Lol! I like that, gingerly cruise equals to Prius. Italian styled Roadster deserves and Italian tune up. Just worried about the 110 miles daily commute.
 

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Just worried about the 110 miles daily commute.
Don't worry about that. My commute is/was 66 miles in extreme heat most of the year here in PHX and I was at 24K in 15 months. You aren't going to hurt the stock car by turning her loose, everything is set very conservatively in the base firmware. I was running her hard every time I sat down using Phase 3&4 tunes with the stuffed Turbo, pushing 240WHP, and it still took 9 months and 14K miles for the band clamp issue to actually cause a break down. I would hit 36PSI of boost here and there and she held together just fine, the 40+ spike not so much.
 

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Like we discussed in your other thread, we have similar mileage and commute requirements.

I don't want to make it sound like I wring the piss out of her every day, but I don't hesitate to spool up the turbo and pass in traffic at 5-5.5k RPM either. I also take her out for spirited drives as often as possible, doing hill climbs above 3-4k RPM in 3rd gear.

Ever since the intake upgrades and EC Phase 1 tune, it's very easy to keep the car in a range where she happily wants to be... :D
 

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I drive mine like I stole it.
 

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This biggest problem I have is keeping it away from the redline.

oh, and sometimes hope the traffic light changes to red, as long as I’m first at the light...
 
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I suggest full throttle all the way up to redline in either second or third at least once every few days or at least once per drive if you can. I usually do it on an on ramp. This helps clean the plugs, helps make sure the oil circulates through the multiair brick, operates the fuel injectors at high flow rates and more.

As for the burned valves, that's very rare, but I think it's caused by continual driving below 4000rpm but on boost, like going up gentle hills. The stock tune has a range where it runs very high cylinder temps due to rpm/boost/mixture, it's in the 2500-4000rpm range when on boost. I don't think it's normally a problem, but when combined with other factors, like a slightly weak injector, I think it can be.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I suggest full throttle all the way up to redline in either second or third at least once every few days or at least once per drive if you can. I usually do it on an on ramp. This helps clean the plugs, helps make sure the oil circulates through the multiair brick, operates the fuel injectors at high flow rates and more.

As for the burned valves, that's very rare, but I think it's caused by continual driving below 4000rpm but on boost, like going up gentle hills. The stock tune has a range where it runs very high cylinder temps due to rpm/boost/mixture, it's in the 2500-4000rpm range when on boost. I don't think it's normally a problem, but when combined with other factors, like a slightly weak injector, I think it can be.

Greg
Thank you Greg. You the best! Maybe its also my fault that it broke down twice because I was babying it too much to save gas and prevent wear and tear. I even got the Mopar Vehicle Protection(extended warranty) for 5 years additional 75k miles bumper to bumper so if in case it breaks again, it would be covered.
 

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I'm all for hitting redline every now and then, blowing out the cobwebs and doing a good old fashioned Italian tuneup, but I'm not sure that is going to cure whatever ills this poor Spider. Multiple valve failures in the same cylinder? Something specific is going on here.

I too have a decent daily commute, about 80 miles round trip, and the types of roads I drive I cant really be bouncing off red line all the time, I'd be plowing people over. Not that I'm against that, sometimes....maybe I should try it. I dont know.

Anyway, I'm in agreement with Greg's verdict from the other thread, that there is likely a problem with the injector, or the wrong valve was used. Or maybe some weird issue with the cam....or someone is just slapping a new valve in there without checking the clearance? A valve thats not firmly seating, combined with an already lean running engine, running fairly high boost...you're going to burn valves.

Is the dealer getting just it running again to get it out the door without finding out what specifically caused the problem to begin with? Wouldnt surprise me. I'm not sure we've heard the end of this.

Hate to say it, putting money into a car still under warranty would sting a bit, but I'd either pull all four injectors and find some local shop that can flow test them, or drop a new injector on #3 on my own dime to rule that out.
 

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Excellent advice given here. I've never driven my car when it wasn't run to redline at least a couple of times. I think the car actually prefers it and it seems to run happiest above 5,000 rpms. I am very meticulous with inspection and maintenance. My car doesn't burn oil and in 13,000 miles I've never seen a single drop of coolant anywhere. At best, I might have a few drops of oil in the turbo inlet and some residue in my catch can after each oil change. In short, yes, drive it like you stole it. You'll have a happier car.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Appreciate the feedback. I don't really know but maybe the dealer just want to get the car out asap. I'm already at 57k and thats why I purchased the mopar extended warranty to cover if anything breaks again. It was scary to breakdown couple of times in the middle of the mountains in upstate NY. lol!
 

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I do track days about once a month to clean my valves and stretch her out a bit. At least, that's what I tell myself it's for 😅 lol...
 
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