[uttekku]

i'm asking this question in a new thread because i wanted it to be like a reference for european users. in here we don't have that much piggybacks and community like this. also our cars 20hp less than yours on stock. look how lamentably we are...

 

[Joe90]

i'm asking this question in a new thread because i wanted it to be like a reference for european users. in here we don't have that much piggybacks and community like this. also our cars 20hp less than yours on stock. look how lamentably we are...

Hi, I had the same question and Greg from EC looked into it for me. The answer I got was "yes". I ddin't specifically ask if they uplift would be from 140 HP to approx 200, the same as it would for a US spec car, but I'm sure Greg will confirm on here.

 

[GarchingS54]

I have heard that there is no difference between EU/AUS and US hardware.
Only different is, how the vendor set the tune. (fuel quality for example)

Where do you live in Europe?
G-tech Engineering (Germany) will publish their PiggyBack in the near future.
(They have reached about 205hp (EWG 80/1269 corrected on the 4wheel dyno) on their first tests)
And I think PogeaRacing will offer PiggyBacks for the over seas market.

If you are going to do a before and after comparison, make sure that they use the actual EWG 80/1269 correction, then you get a comparison to manufacturers figures.
But be careful that all environmental conditions are on the dyno sheet.

On a representative dyno sheet must be:
-Dyno Typ
-Modifications on the car (bigger wheels make a big different in wheel power - that also is the reason why power on the wheel is crap)
-Ambient or better intake temperature.
-Air pressure
-Humidity
-Correction method and factor-> EWG 80/1269

FCA recommends the 5th Gear for dyno tests.

Also on the sheet must be 4 curves for:

• Wheel power
• Engine power (corrected)
• drive train loss (Schleppleistung at the bottom in grey)
• Torque

As an example: a dyno comparison of a EU FIAT 595 Comp. Gen.4

It shows the difference between sport an non sport mode.

As you can see, if you want it is quiet easy to make a before and after comparison. But why make only so few providers?

 

[Brett67]

Where do you live in Europe?
G-tech Engineering (Germany) will publish their PiggyBack in the near future.
(They have reached about 205hp (EWG 80/1269 corrected on the 4wheel dyno) on their first tests)
And I think PogeaRacing will offer PiggyBacks for the over seas market.

To clarify something here, Pogea Racing will never offer a piggy back solution for tuning. Pogea has taken the position that flash tunes are better and intends to stand by that. Currently Pogea can bench flash the 124 Spider with a nice road tune. This is definitely more of a commitment than plugging in a piggy back but the results are very worthwhile.

We are running the Pogea street tune on the Auto Ricambi 124 Spider and plan to have comparative dyno information soon between stock, piggy back and flash tune. Same car, same all wheel dyno, similar conditions.

Personally I feel that the piggy back is a good option for someone wanting a plug and play solution. This comment is in no way intended to be critical of a product, just correct Pogea Racing's stance on the devices.
Thanks

 

[reece146]

To compare with North American dyno numbers you will need to get SAE dyno calibration numbers. No one in North America speaks "EWG 80/1269".

I expect the same dyno can output the numbers in either format if you ask for it. North America being North America I doubt the local dynos will have anything other than SAE installed unless the operator specifically asked for it... but I'm speculating.

There are a couple of different SAE standards, one of which is the most used, which escapes my brain pan at the moment. Some googling for the truly interested should be able to scare it up.

 

[Brett67]

Dyno numbers...

To compare with North American dyno numbers you will need to get SAE dyno calibration numbers. No one in North America speaks "EWG 80/1269".

I expect the same dyno can output the numbers in either format if you ask for it. North America being North America I doubt the local dynos will have anything other than SAE installed unless the operator specifically asked for it... but I'm speculating.

There are a couple of different SAE standards, one of which is the most used, which escapes my brain pan at the moment. Some googling for the truly interested should be able to scare it up.

Very soon, we will have a comparison between stock baseline, piggy back and Pogea Tune in SAE measurements from an all wheel dyno that measures our cars properly. We already have the first two measurements (stock and Piggy) and the numbers look consistent with what we expected. What is good to see is the curves and how the power is delivered between the three.

 

[Greg]

i'm asking this question in a new thread because i wanted it to be like a reference for european users. in here we don't have that much piggybacks and community like this. also our cars 20hp less than yours on stock. look how lamentably we are...

A lot of people seem to want to comment on this to try and sway you to one product or another. I will simply answer the question.

The answer is YES, you can use any of the current US tuner boxes on the Euro 124 or Euro 124 Abarth. In the case of the Abarth, it's simple, the product and results will be just like they would be on a US car. However on the 124, while it will work, the results will be different.

All current piggy backs are "additive products" That means the boxes add a certain amount of boost to the stock figures. So on the 124, if a box adds 3psi to the stock value of about 21, you will have about 24 pounds of boost. However adding 3psi to a Euro 124's 15 will only give 18. So which it will work, and the car will be faster, it won't be as fast as a Euro Abarth or a US spec 124 or Abarth.

I hope that helps.

Greg

 

[GarchingS54]

Does SAE have a correction for modern turbo engines?

If you have MS Excel you can convert by your own.

Are the FIAT power figures in the US SAE or EWG?

Thanks Brett.
I know that Pogea said that they will never offer piggybacks. (because: always the best )
I thought, to make it easier to sell overseas they will offer a suitable product.

But if not, and they stick to the same high standard as in Europe, the customer definitely gets a better product.

So G-Tech (just 2h away from Pogea) will be the only german well known vendor for piggybacks.

Btw. from which pickyback are you talking, what would you like to compare?
If Pogea is going to perform an SAE measurement, it is even better.

 

[uttekku]

All current piggy backs are "additive products" That means the boxes add a certain amount of boost to the stock figures. So on the 124, if a box adds 3psi to the stock value of about 21, you will have about 24 pounds of boost. However adding 3psi to a Euro 124's 15 will only give 18. So which it will work, and the car will be faster, it won't be as fast as a Euro Abarth or a US spec 124 or Abarth.

I hope that helps.

Greg

that was really illuminating. but that also means we have to keep searching for euro spec tune options.

thank you.

 

[Greg]

Perhaps someone should start a thread about the various standards for measuring power, SAE, DIN, EWG, etc. This might be a more effective way to discuss it than trying to have several conversations about it in several different threads. I know I will be glad to discuss this issue, but I don't want to participate in derailing someone else's thread.

Greg

 

[Greg]

that was really illuminating. but that also means we have to keep searching for euro spec tune options.

thank you.

Thank you. But for the moment, I think waiting will be more productive than searching.

Greg

 

[reece146]

Are the FIAT power figures in the US SAE or EWG?

Pretty certain SAE, need to compare like to like for comparison/marketing purposes, plus the past "kerfuffles" of auto manufacturers getting nailed with incorrect dyno numbers in their marketing materials probably would incline them to do things properly per market.

That said, a peak number is mostly useless so it doesn't really matter IMO.

SAE does have a correction factor for turbo setups IIRC but I'm no expert on this.

 

[Brett67]

Tunes

Btw. from which pickyback are you talking, what would you like to compare?
If Pogea is going to perform an SAE measurement, it is even better.

Respectfully, I would rather not detail which piggy back it is. The point is for our own comparison. Honestly, at this point, we do not know if the tune will off substantially better numbers on the dyno or not. It feels better on the butt dyno but you know how that goes.

Our goal is not to put any other product down, simply show how it compares to an off-the-shelf piggy back. Kinda like the 70s detergent commercials used to do, compare "leading brand A" with our solution. I know this may not be a popular answer but I do not want to get into a situation that appears to be slamming another product from any vendor, that is not the goal here. The piggy back options DO work, I have used them and usually had good results. I am sorry if I got off topic, I just wanted to clear a few things up.