Madness Autoworks, Maxflow intake system
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Not available yet, should be 2 to 3 more weeks according to latest telecom with Madness. They say it passed CARB regs, and is currently in production. It looks like a real nice piece, and I'm ready. I especially like that the evap hoses connect directly to the air box keeping original hoses and fittings. I'm ordering as soon as it's available. Will keep you posted.
Joined
·
115 Posts
Ditto
Joined
·
261 Posts
Absorption and dissipation occur at the same rate, depending on the conductivity of the material. Meaning, conductivity is the key with all other conditions being equal or steady state (material thickness, air flow, etc). If something can dissipate heat at a high conduction rate, it will absorb it equally as quick.
You can learn more about conductivity of materials here: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
You can learn more about conductivity of materials here: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
Shhh! You're not allowed to derail threads!
/sarcasm
Jokes aside, more information is required before a judgment can be made. Maybe EC's choice of silicon has nothing to do with it, and it's actually the improvement in air flow (ergo transit time through a hot engine bay) that results in the cooler temperatures...
A fair enough comment, though keep in mind most of their gear is rebranded (or rebranded by others). For example check out TMC Motorsport for the piggyback unit. TMC is more forthcoming and includes power and torque figures on their page.
They also include more accurate information on their AutoFlash Gearbox Tuning unit, together with their K-Tag bench remapping tool for tuners.
http://www.tmcmotorsport.com
Joined
·
606 Posts
Silicon is widely used in the aftermarket and I have used them in other cars in the past; however, I drove a desk before I retired (software industry) so I have no clue as to which is better. But since it is widely used there must be good reasons for doing so.
Joined
·
121 Posts
I'll start with the disclaimer that my experience with the two materials was gained on another platform, which was supercharged and generated nuclear levels of heat (Mercedes M112 Kompressor).
Having said that, my experience proved the silicone tubing to be far superior. I had a DashDaq installed on my car which tracked several events during operation (AFR, IAT, timing, etc.)
The intake air temperature (IAT) was about 15°F cooler with silicone inlet tubes versus the aftermarket aluminum ones we had previously used. After a session, you could open the hood and immediately lay your hand on the silicone tubes -- trying that with the aluminum tubes would result in losing fingerprints.
I even tested the OEM E-Class intake pipes (a common upgrade we used back in the day) and the silicone was cooler than plastic, by about 4.5° (average of all runs).
One of the aftermarket vendors for the SRT-6 came out with an aluminum/silicone hybrid, but the aluminum attracted heat. So, the countermeasure was to coat the exterior of the pipe in gold-ceramic coating as a thermal barrier. That alone dropped the IATs by several degrees. The inside was coated with teflon which smoothed the surface and resulted in higher CFM ratings.
Carbon Fiber is an excellent insulator from heat, so the fact that both MA and EC boxes are carbon is a plus for both camps.
Frankly speaking (and I have no affiliation with either company) I would use the EC 4.1 intake simply because of the silicone design and the cleaner aesthetics.
All the best,
--John
Having said that, my experience proved the silicone tubing to be far superior. I had a DashDaq installed on my car which tracked several events during operation (AFR, IAT, timing, etc.)
The intake air temperature (IAT) was about 15°F cooler with silicone inlet tubes versus the aftermarket aluminum ones we had previously used. After a session, you could open the hood and immediately lay your hand on the silicone tubes -- trying that with the aluminum tubes would result in losing fingerprints.
I even tested the OEM E-Class intake pipes (a common upgrade we used back in the day) and the silicone was cooler than plastic, by about 4.5° (average of all runs).
One of the aftermarket vendors for the SRT-6 came out with an aluminum/silicone hybrid, but the aluminum attracted heat. So, the countermeasure was to coat the exterior of the pipe in gold-ceramic coating as a thermal barrier. That alone dropped the IATs by several degrees. The inside was coated with teflon which smoothed the surface and resulted in higher CFM ratings.
Carbon Fiber is an excellent insulator from heat, so the fact that both MA and EC boxes are carbon is a plus for both camps.
Frankly speaking (and I have no affiliation with either company) I would use the EC 4.1 intake simply because of the silicone design and the cleaner aesthetics.
All the best,
--John
Joined
·
351 Posts
As a favor to us chemically-inclined, please be sure to include the "e" on the end and call it silicone. Silicon is a grey element used for semiconductor chips and it can get confusing as to whether you're referring to rubber tubing or electronic devices when the words are used interchangeably.
Now my eye is twitching uncontrollably.
Now my eye is twitching uncontrollably.
Joined
·
708 Posts
Thank you! Glad you like.
Here is some additional info for clarification purposes:
We made a decision as a company a while back to invest more in to development and testing of our products. Part of this commitment was evaluating and tuning products to make sure they perform as good as we state they do and our fellow enthusiasts are happy with their upgrades.
We have an in house fabrication department in which we design and manufacture. In addition to that we utilize a state of the art dyno testing facility to make sure the products we put on do not cause harm to the vehicle. Instead of using questionable testing methods that produce ridiculously high hp numbers that the vehicle is simply not capable of producing reliably we use the facility to properly map vehicles like the 124 to extract the maximum amount of usable power. We do not chase high dyno numbers or use questionable dyno testing methods so we can show a high number that will never be replicated in real tests.
Rather than get in to online debates on what is better we simply give you a guarantee. Try our products and if you are not satisfied we will take them back and refund your money (check return policy for times). This simple guarantee has worked well for us and the majority of enthusiasts out there who use our products like them and refer others.
With out latest batch of products we decided to go a step further. We contracted with SEMA for testing and certification. We actually gave SEMA a vehicle to use for testing our intakes and ECM modules. They put over 4,000 on the vehicle and tested the vehicle in a variety of ways to confirm our gains. At the same time they tested a variety of perimeters of how the vehicle was functioning with the modifications that we installed and after numerous tests have confirmed that the parts installed work and should meet all CARB Certification Requirements. All paperwork, verification, instructions and etc (lots!) has been submitted to CARB for final approval. Now we just hurry up and wait. LOL!
Hopefully it will not take too long now. The money has been spent, the development and testing has been done and everything has been certified by SEMA. Now it is just the paperwork going through the channels between SEMA and CARB.
Meanwhile we have racked up a lot of miles on our own 124 ABARTH with the prototype intake and also on several customers 124 cars that have been running the pre production, hand made versions. The ECMs, GOPedal and Trans Flasher are available now.
Joined
·
121 Posts
Edited to reduce Tourette's from fellow membersAs a favor to us chemically-inclined, please be sure to include the "e" on the end and call it silicone. Silicon is a grey element used for semiconductor chips and it can get confusing as to whether you're referring to rubber tubing or electronic devices when the words are used interchangeably.
Now my eye is twitching uncontrollably.
I make that mistake all the time... I blame the Russians (no, really -- I work with Russians, they have subconsciously modified my English over the years)
Joined
·
708 Posts
Hi there JFernald,
Let us clarify:
The carbon is on the BMC Canister Filter Portion of the intake. The reason we use aluminum for the pipes is due to the way we want the pipes to sit in the engine bay. Using silicone piping would not give us the final look, fitment and durability we were looking for. We have seen way too many of the silicone intakes out other that use long silicone pipes. They typically just flopped around loose in the engine compartment and the majority of them had portions rubbing on the other parts under the hood over time. There is no issue with using aluminum pipes.
We are pulling air directly from the outside and after many test we have found no negative effect of using this set up over doing it all in silicone. Remember, these are not Cold Air Intakes. You are pulling air in to a hot turbo. It then goes to an intercooler that is designed to cool the air before it is sent to the engine. The goal is to get smooth, turbulent free airflow and have it be as clean as possible when going in to turbo.
It would certainly be less expensive to do it out of silicone, but the overall look and fitment just can't be matched with silicone hoses.
Everything looks good online in a picture, but look at it in person and the choice would be clear.
Joined
·
708 Posts
We are sorry you feel that way Tom. It is too bad you are not nearby so you can simply pop by, meet our team, see and drive our cars and see how we do things. Sometimes things online/ print don't always come out the same as they do in a face to face meet.
We try to do our best to not oversell our products and that is why we focus on averages when we make claims and not give you some pie in the sky number. We also try to do our best to back it up with a money back guarantee. Try it and if you are not happy we will take it back. That seems to work for most folks out there and it is also why we have continued to grow.
If you are ever in the LA California Area or the Austin Texas Area stop by and visit. We would be happy to show you around.
In case we can ever be of service give us a buzz over the phone and perhaps we can assist that way.
If there is something specific that you do not like in a product listing or have a question please do not hesitate to drop us a PM. We really do want helpful feedback.
Joined
·
708 Posts
Hi MotoPete!
Thank you for your input. You are partially correct.
We work directly with TMC and offer some products from their product line.
In regards to the hardware (ECM) first. The ECM is manufactured by a different company (not MADNESS or TMC). TMC purchases the hardware and then creates a map for a vehicle which is then downloaded in to the box. MADNESS purchases the hardware, creates a map and downloads it in to the box. Both companies share the hardware from the same manufacturer because we both believe based on what is available it is simply the best choice.
When it came time for developing an ECM for the 124 we purchased the hardware along with modules that would allow us to load the boxes. We then made arrangements with one of the top software developers in Europe that creates maps for tuning boxes to have him come out to us for a week to do development and tuning. We also had the distributor of the boxes fly in for a week at the same time. The 124 was put on the dyno numerous times to tweak and develop several maps for US/ Canada Spec cars. We tested them on California 91 Octane and drove them all over California and then went back to the dyno again and again.
Over a period of 2 months with the help of our partners we developed several maps for the 124 and then released them with our MADNESS ECM. You have several variations of the hardware along with several maps that are available based on which module you have and which fuel you use.
You will also notice that we refrain from using high HP gains as a way to sell our modules. We tune them for daily use and are confident they will perform just as well or even outperform all other modules offered for the vehicle. Can we get a little higher dyno number to show on a chart? Sure, but that is not how we chose to market our product.
We let the product speak for itself. That is probably why we continue to sell out on weekly basis
In addition, we back them up with a 30 day money back guarantee and a fantastic price!
Joined
·
708 Posts
For those that are very focused on reducing the temps in the engine bay we have helped design and now offer a 124 specific turbo blanket that does an fantastic job on keeping the turbo hot while keeping the under the hood temps down.
If you are looking for a great combo our soon to be released intake with a blanket will fit the bill! We will also put together a little package for those that would like to purchase the set and save.
If you are looking for a great combo our soon to be released intake with a blanket will fit the bill! We will also put together a little package for those that would like to purchase the set and save.
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!