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2017 FIAT 124 Spider Classica
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Discussion Starter #1
This is just a thought..

So my 124 is getting into the higher miles and there is so much talk about how great the ND’s SkyActiv 2.0l engine is.

My 124 is all stock aside from suspension.

I read on Redline360 that the motor mounts are the same, but the brackets are different...

Should my engine fail and I decide to replace it... would the ND’s engine and tranny directly mount onto the 124 being that it’s the same chassis and share the same motor mounts?
Would love the LS swap, but everything you need from Flyin Miata costs about $15000 then you gotta get the LS engine and T56 which is another $5-6000 plus the work is another about $5000 (should’ve kept my RX8.. total job for LS swap was $9000 in Fontana).

And I read that the soft tops are also a direct fit.. so would the ND’s hardtop also be a direct fit? We only have DGmotorsports for hardtops and they moved out of CA to WA two years ago, but the ND hardtops are EVERYWHERE. (DGmotorsports also only ships via freight.. which is way more expensive for residential areas)
 

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This is just a thought..

So my 124 is getting into the higher miles and there is so much talk about how great the ND’s SkyActiv 2.0l engine is.

My 124 is all stock aside from suspension.

I read on Redline360 that the motor mounts are the same, but the brackets are different...

Should my engine fail and I decide to replace it... would the ND’s engine and tranny directly mount onto the 124 being that it’s the same chassis and share the same motor mounts?
Would love the LS swap, but everything you need from Flyin Miata costs about $15000 then you gotta get the LS engine and T56 which is another $5-6000 plus the work is another about $5000 (should’ve kept my RX8.. total job for LS swap was $9000 in Fontana).

And I read that the soft tops are also a direct fit.. so would the ND’s hardtop also be a direct fit? We only have DGmotorsports for hardtops and they moved out of CA to WA two years ago, but the ND hardtops are EVERYWHERE. (DGmotorsports also only ships via freight.. which is way more expensive for residential areas)
First thing that struck me here was.....COST ! Why would you go to all that outlay when a rebuild to your specifications, or, a replacement unit would be cheaper, keep the turbo (updated even) and would be a great time to include whatever mods you may fancy ? How many miles is high mileage is the next question ? The Spiders are only 3 years old or so, so a worn out unit...Are you have problems ? if so is it worth sharing here as the Boys, some Professionals lurk here as well, can advise or fix (locality) and most likely do it at decent rates as they have their own name and Business to protect......Interesting to see what others think and find out more about your position...Cheers
ron
 

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i think the COVID 19 got to his head.
go out and enjoy the drive. Gas is cheap so let it out

Sounds like a MAZDA guy missing the compliments of the 124 spider. lol
 

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2018 124 Spider Abarth Custom
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I don't know enough about the swapping over but you can also rework a 1.4MA into a beast, take the NC 6-Speed to Stage 2, and FX-400 Clutch for a lot less and come out ahead in power.
 

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Yeah, I would rebuild the 1.4 or do LS swap. If you want to go less expensive, K-series is all the rage.
 

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No just no.
 

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I've said it before. But the 1750 should have been standard in the 124. Its lovely at 240hp in the Giulietta QV and is a great base for 300hp.

But yeah....cant see the point swapping mx5 motor in. Buy an mx5.
 

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When the 124 spider ceases to be built by Mada, then it should be branded under the Alfa Romeo to replace the 4C since Alfa Romeo has abandoned the 4C. Sure but the basic 1.7 turbo, and kick azzes to other spiders.
 

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This is just a thought..

So my 124 is getting into the higher miles and there is so much talk about how great the ND’s SkyActiv 2.0l engine is.

My 124 is all stock aside from suspension.

I read on Redline360 that the motor mounts are the same, but the brackets are different...

Should my engine fail and I decide to replace it... would the ND’s engine and tranny directly mount onto the 124 being that it’s the same chassis and share the same motor mounts?
Would love the LS swap, but everything you need from Flyin Miata costs about $15000 then you gotta get the LS engine and T56 which is another $5-6000 plus the work is another about $5000 (should’ve kept my RX8.. total job for LS swap was $9000 in Fontana).

And I read that the soft tops are also a direct fit.. so would the ND’s hardtop also be a direct fit? We only have DGmotorsports for hardtops and they moved out of CA to WA two years ago, but the ND hardtops are EVERYWHERE. (DGmotorsports also only ships via freight.. which is way more expensive for residential areas)

Just what are you talking about, there’s so much wrong. But the Engine is better, yes

ND doesn’t have a removable official hardtop, RF is a automatic Targa. No it would not fit because of the bodywork.

Second, ND2 engine is better, but unfortunately why would you want a ND transmission. They have big design flaws and quality control issue. Blowing up left and right

Third, DG too is absolutely not worth buying unless you are a hardcore track guy. Water Leaks, Fit and finish issue, massive wind noise. Yes, the brackets are mostly the same, but the rear hinges design are different, but everything else and the top is the same. Bottom line you would not want this top.

Forth the only way it “might” work is buy a BBR NC transmission adapter plate for the ND, then buy a new ND2 engine and related brackets, and computers. There a chance it would work no issue.

Lastly, if you mean the ND1 engine that is absolutely not worth it, it’s garbage compare to ND2.
 

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A rebuild and upgrade on the FIAT 1.4 will probably cost you allot less, have fewer issues and make more power...
 

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'18 124 Abarth mt
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I don't know by what criteria anyone would conclude that the Skyactive 2.0L is qualitatively "better" than the 124 version of the 1.4L. It does rev better above 5500 rpm, so for certain track layouts it'll probably be superior. But for street and autocross, where torque is premium, the 1.4L is "better". That and the fact that the Skyactive 2.0L has had its share of warped heads, cracked cylinder walls, and fractured valves - not too many, but more major issues than the later versions of the 1.4L.

And the ND manual transmission is extremely problematic, whereas the NC transmission is probably the strongest Mazda ever built.

I don't think there's any good reason for such a swap, unless the vehicle is a dedicated track car - and even then there are cheaper and more sensible ways of dealing with the 124 engine's minor problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
i think the COVID 19 got to his head.
go out and enjoy the drive. Gas is cheap so let it out

Sounds like a MAZDA guy missing the compliments of the 124 spider. lol
Lol. Really hope you're not saying that because I'm Asian. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but hey you might be right since I do spend 8-12 hours a day with patients diagnosed with COVID-19.

It was just a thought and I don't know if the ND's engine is better or not. It was just a conversation sparked up between a few of my friends who own Miatas and GT86s. Right now I enjoy my car the way it is, but some of my friends who own the Abarth 500 ran into quite a bit of issues with the Multi-Air. From my understanding it's the same engine in our cars right?

The only main concern I have with the Multi-Air is that in California there are no Fiat Performance specialists. My main mechanic was Yoshiya-san from Neptune Speed, but he specializes in rotaries.

I know the inside and out of a rotary engine and some stuff about piston engines, but all this piston engines I've ever worked on were cars from the 90s. I am very unfamiliar with the Multi-Air system.

I posted this with the motive to see what people on the forum feel about it and I appreciate everyone's feedback even though some are a little more nicer than others lol.
Seems like the verdict is that everyone here loves the 1.4l engine or to swap the LS.

I really do enjoy this car and the way it feels. It's nimble, already came turbo'd so no need for replacing with low compression pistons, great looking car, but you're right, I am a Mazda guy lol. I've owned RX7s and RX8s for most of my time.

Thanks everyone! The SkyActiv will not be on my list for my car.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just what are you talking about, there’s so much wrong. But the Engine is better, yes

ND doesn’t have a removable official hardtop, RF is a automatic Targa. No it would not fit because of the bodywork.

Second, ND2 engine is better, but unfortunately why would you want a ND transmission. They have big design flaws and quality control issue. Blowing up left and right

Third, DG too is absolutely not worth buying unless you are a hardcore track guy. Water Leaks, Fit and finish issue, massive wind noise. Yes, the brackets are mostly the same, but the rear hinges design are different, but everything else and the top is the same. Bottom line you would not want this top.

Forth the only way it “might” work is buy a BBR NC transmission adapter plate for the ND, then buy a new ND2 engine and related brackets, and computers. There a chance it would work no issue.69

Lastly, if you mean the ND1 engine that is absolutely not worth it, it’s garbage compare to ND2.
Thank you for your feedback. My 124 is definitely for track only. I drive it once a week or 2 weeks to keep things flowing so I do want a hardtop my car. Didn't realize it had so many issues like you stated though.

My post just asks questions, not really me stating facts. So its not really "what am I talking about" its honest questions for clarification if people here thought it was a good idea or a bad idea.

With all the responses I got, the verdict is.... 100% bad idea lol.
 

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I don't know by what criteria anyone would conclude that the Skyactive 2.0L is qualitatively "better" than the 124 version of the 1.4L. It does rev better above 5500 rpm, so for certain track layouts it'll probably be superior. But for street and autocross, where torque is premium, the 1.4L is "better". That and the fact that the Skyactive 2.0L has had its share of warped heads, cracked cylinder walls, and fractured valves - not too many, but more major issues than the later versions of the 1.4L.

And the ND manual transmission is extremely problematic, whereas the NC transmission is probably the strongest Mazda ever built.

I don't think there's any good reason for such a swap, unless the vehicle is a dedicated track car - and even then there are cheaper and more sensible ways of dealing with the 124 engine's minor problems.
huh? Torque is premium? Where did you get that? If you are racing you try your best to keep your engine above a certain range like 4500-6500 in our cars (stock), where basically even with a tune 5700-6500 is useless.

Our engine is pretty reliable, but the 10-year-old engine and the tecnology we have is OLD. Without tuning its a eco-vtec not a performance engine. There are no turbo lag but the thresh hold is high and torque range is small 2500 - 5500 without some modifications. It spools fast but it also has its limitations. If you want a bigger turbo it spools wayyyy higher and not suitable for daily, like 3800-7200 (Mine)

Potential wise with a turbo kit ND1 is already at 330WHP from BBR, imagine what ND2 can do. ND1 is not that good of an engine
ND2 have forge pistons while we have hypereutectic piston

a cast iron block (Reliable to handle boost but heavy, maybe that is an advantage
I highly disagree with the so-called issue with skyactive. No matter the ND1 or ND2 I have never seen one blow up even the track/autocross group unless its stock internals and boosted to the sky.
Also then there is the issue with displacement 700cc is a big difference, and stock injectors can only support 250hp and tuning. There are so many tuning companies for NDs
 

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Thank you for your feedback. My 124 is definitely for track only. I drive it once a week or 2 weeks to keep things flowing so I do want a hardtop my car. Didn't realize it had so many issues like you stated though.

My post just asks questions, not really me stating facts. So its not really "what am I talking about" its honest questions for clarification if people here thought it was a good idea or a bad idea.

With all the responses I got, the verdict is.... 100% bad idea lol.
However, I think if you are really looking for a swap the LFX swap is the cake. IMO, not the LS swap.

Reason being, it is a little cheaper and easier to work with, granted the FM swap is good where it does not effect then weight that much, however it will end up being 2600-2700lbs
LS Swaps you also have to worry about how to reinforce the chassis so the torque does not twist the car

For the LFX swap you might lose some weight, but no promises, and a turnkey from V8 Roadster with labour is about 22k.
I'd imagine if you do it yourself find a used Camaro drivetrain it is about 13k Max. Now that is a much viable option

Same as the LS swap you keep everything working except the traction control.
Barely gained any weight at all compare to stock, much more usable power with 245 200TW tires pushing about 300WHP
more room in the engine bay as V6 also the engine sits a little further back

No extra cooling needed and drivetrain is not very stressed.
I did a lot of research into it. Any question or if you are interested give V8 roadster a call.

Hey, in the long run, the V6 swap is even better than the OEM upgrades.
You don't have to worry about cooling or reliability or any vaccums or boost leaks, less parts. instant power zero lag
The engine is not stressed to pull 2500lbs of weight. Fuel consumption is very low, better than the OEM 1.4T I would say.

You don't have to worry about upgrading your cooling, adding a better radiator, oil coolers, transmission coolers, rear diff coolers.
You don't need any of that with the Camaro drivetrain. If you have the money and time I would seriously consider it.

If I had 20g right now to spare my car would already have the LFX in it about a year ago
 

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Klikai, read my post again. I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say. I'm saying that the combination of the ND engine and transmission presents problems and gives no appreciable advantages over the 124 combination that can't be sorted through in easier, less expensive ways. As far as I can tell, that was you point, too.
 

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Klikai, read my post again. I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say. I'm saying that the combination of the ND engine and transmission presents problems and gives no appreciable advantages over the 124 combination that can't be sorted through in easier, less expensive ways. As far as I can tell, that was you point, too.
It was my point, but evaluating everything. Right now for the past two years with this car I’d rather have an ND2 engine than our almost 10 year old SOHC, jesus it’s almost as bad as a gen 3 5.7 hemi in 2020 if it wasn’t for the power to displacement ratio. With FIAT engineering messing with the ECU every year for no god damn fucking reason and no improvement
 

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I've driven the ND1 and it was average. Probably a bit sweeter up top than a stock 124 and makes a nice noise but felt pretty flat most of the time.

Donr forget, the ND1 and 2 have similar low down torque....the extra power is all above 5k.

The ND2 is a nice engine and as people have said the tech used to get 184hp out of it is impressive.

However I wouldn't be too harsh on the multiairs. 170hp from a 1.4 turbo is still competitive and with a map 200 ish is good. Agree it's based on 2010 tech but alot of modern engines have their roots back in the 2000s.

My biggest issue is that I dont see the benefit of multiair for the issues it can cause. Town driving is still terrible mpg and that's where the MA should shine..
 
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