[Cruise42]

I put "124 spider" into the eBay search box and it returned a bunch of different performance tuners that plug into the OBD port. The variety available and price range is quite confusing. Are any of these worth it? Any downside to trying them out?

 

[Greg]

A lot of them do absolutely nothing. I don't know of any causing an actual harm, other than wasting money, but in General, the only things that can actually reprogram the ECU are handheld OBD tuners from Dimsport, Alientech, and perhaps a few others. Of course various piggy backs can accomplish nearly the same thing by connecting to various sensors under the hood.

Greg

 

[jetlag]

A lot of them do absolutely nothing. I don't know of any causing an actual harm, other than wasting money, but in General, the only things that can actually reprogram the ECU are handheld OBD tuners from Dimsport, Alientech, and perhaps a few others. Of course various piggy backs can accomplish nearly the same thing by connecting to various sensors under the hood.

Greg

but in General, the only things that can actually reprogram the ECU are handheld OBD tuners from Dimsport, Alientech, and perhaps a few others

Hey Greg, did you forget EC? or am I reading this post incorrectly?

 

[depotdan]

I believe EC uses Dimsport for their programming hardware.

Dan

 

[Greg]

I believe EC uses Dimsport for their programming hardware.

Dan

Thanks Dan,

That's exactly correct, and I should have made that clear. The EC Euro+Drive system uses the Dimsport handheld device to flash the tune onto the car. The tune itself is developed, tested, and made in my shop by Toby, and Brandon, I help out with some of the development.

Greg

 

[Chimera]

Disclaimer: as I wrote this I realized alot of what I'm asking is probably classified as trade secrets. It's also just kinda a brain dump of questions and thoughts, but I'll just leave it as it is.
So, for the sake of conversation, how much crossover compatibility is shared between the tuning hardware, and the software/firmware loaded on the devices? So if OFT and Tork are both using the powergate3, and EC, and whoever else idk, are using Dimsport, is there anything that actually prevents loading multiple vendors tunes into a single device? Presumably alienware for the powergate3 behind the scenes is still providing the same underlaying firmware, providing the tuners the ability to access, and map hex locations and apply modifications. Given some of what I've seen concerning 2019 maps perhaps being different, how much of the reverse engineering is being left in the tuners hands to figureout vs the hardware/firmware vendor? Beyond that I think some tuners add in additional code, however the specifics of this have never been super clear to me, I assume it takes the form of custom functions written into unused memory and hooks placed in existing code to call those functions when requested. Sometimes these add driving functions like LC, and other times it looks like things like read/write blocks, new encryption license keys, or custom offsets. That said it doesn't look like alot of tuners are offering extended functionality on this platform, or I haven't seen it. On this platform obviously there is some level of encryption being used that is specific to the vehicles vin, as you can't hot swap any of the computers without reflashing them to be specific to the vehicle they are being used in.

 

[jpit]

One of the great aspects of the Powergate for the ND Miata is that allows you to log dozens of engine parameters including knock and knock retard. Definitely helps the tuner fine tune his tune.

 

[Greg]

Disclaimer: as I wrote this I realized alot of what I'm asking is probably classified as trade secrets. It's also just kinda a brain dump of questions and thoughts, but I'll just leave it as it is.
So, for the sake of conversation, how much crossover compatibility is shared between the tuning hardware, and the software/firmware loaded on the devices? So if OFT and Tork are both using the powergate3, and EC, and whoever else idk, are using Dimsport, is there anything that actually prevents loading multiple vendors tunes into a single device? Presumably alienware for the powergate3 behind the scenes is still providing the same underlaying firmware, providing the tuners the ability to access, and map hex locations and apply modifications. Given some of what I've seen concerning 2019 maps perhaps being different, how much of the reverse engineering is being left in the tuners hands to figureout vs the hardware/firmware vendor? Beyond that I think some tuners add in additional code, however the specifics of this have never been super clear to me, I assume it takes the form of custom functions written into unused memory and hooks placed in existing code to call those functions when requested. Sometimes these add driving functions like LC, and other times it looks like things like read/write blocks, new encryption license keys, or custom offsets. That said it doesn't look like alot of tuners are offering extended functionality on this platform, or I haven't seen it. On this platform obviously there is some level of encryption being used that is specific to the vehicles vin, as you can't hot swap any of the computers without reflashing them to be specific to the vehicle they are being used in.

OK, I'll cover some of these. No, there isn't anything that physically prevents you from loading multiple vendor tunes onto the same unit. However actually doing that is a bit complex, and it's very rarely done. I have personally never tried to do it, but it should be possible.

The hardware providers, Dimsport and Alientech provide their customers (the tuners) with very little in the way of actual tuning parameters. They identify a few places in the ECU where some things are located, but not nearly enough to make an effective tune. I like to use a musician analogy. Dimsport is like a store that will sell your band Drums, Guitars, amps and everything you need to start making music. They might throw in some sheet music for some very basic stuff, but you are on your own after that.

I'm not sure what you mean by "extended functionality". We do offer a lot of options with our tunes, so as far as the tuning goes, I guess that's extended functionality. Yes, there is a lot of encryption, the manufactures make it that way, and it's getting more and more complex. I think we are pretty good at getting past that encryption.

Greg