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Discussion Starter #1
Just had a sample sent off to Oil Lab here in UK

I have 5k miles since last change, although have topped with about 250ml at 4k.

I paid for their highest package. They are well reviewed

I did this mainly out of interest. Still convinced getting oil usage so would like to see if anything going on. Also just general health of engine.
Will update here with results
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Analysis in. All looks good..I'll do another one in 6 months maybe. Zero dilution, nothing out of the ordinary.

28000 miles, 6k miles on this oil. Shell helix 5w40

76455
 

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Having compared to some others, Iron looks a little high. Still within norm, but about 5ppm more than expected. I think the extra moly is from the oil.

Copper and Ally are withitn norms though.

I'll do another one in 5000 miles time and see what is what
 

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Fuel dilution is normal on this motor. I’m betting they didn’t test for it.

@XtremeRevolution
 

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I spoke to the chap on the phone and he took me through it. They assure me they did test for it as he explained each item.

I didnt pay for the highest package, which I now see I should have done as they didn't test for base number. I'll make sure I do that next time.

I am going to ditch my Pipercross air filter, silicon seems a bit higher than maybe it should be. Will be picking up an AFE.
 

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I spoke to the chap on the phone and he took me through it. They assure me they did test for it as he explained each item.

I didnt pay for the highest package, which I now see I should have done as they didn't test for base number. I'll make sure I do that next time.

I am going to ditch my Pipercross air filter, silicon seems a bit higher than maybe it should be. Will be picking up an AFE.
I strongly, strongly doubt there was zero fuel dilution. There is always SOME fuel dilution. Ask what their method for fuel dilution testing is. I've seen so many oil analysis reports of this engine, and every single one of them had some fuel dilution.

The numbers are OK. Not great, but OK. Iron is a bit high for a broken in engine with only 6k miles on the oil. Track the trends; chromium is piston ring wear and Aluminum is valvetrain wear, likely cam bearing caps. Copper would be bearing alloys or oil cooler leeching.

Silicon isquite a bit higher than I'd like to see. Check your filtration system. Hope you aren't using a cotton gauze filter. Edit: just noticed you said that you're ditching your air filter. Good idea. The best oil filter is a good air filter. Very likely where a great deal of your wear came from.

Why aren't they testing viscosity at 100C? Every single lab report I've ever seen provideda 100C cSt viscosity measurement as that's what's used for SAE viscosity ratings. The fact that it's not provided, yet fuel dilution is claimed at 0%, makes me question that result even more.
 

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I strongly, strongly doubt there was zero fuel dilution. There is always SOME fuel dilution. Ask what their method for fuel dilution testing is. I've seen so many oil analysis reports of this engine, and every single one of them had some fuel dilution.

The numbers are OK. Not great, but OK. Iron is a bit high for a broken in engine with only 6k miles on the oil. Track the trends; chromium is piston ring wear and Aluminum is valvetrain wear, likely cam bearing caps. Copper would be bearing alloys or oil cooler leeching.

Silicon isquite a bit higher than I'd like to see. Check your filtration system. Hope you aren't using a cotton gauze filter. Edit: just noticed you said that you're ditching your air filter. Good idea. The best oil filter is a good air filter. Very likely where a great deal of your wear came from.

Why aren't they testing viscosity at 100C? Every single lab report I've ever seen provideda 100C cSt viscosity measurement as that's what's used for SAE viscosity ratings. The fact that it's not provided, yet fuel dilution is claimed at 0%, makes me question that result even more.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I have emailed them again regarding fuel dilution and the method used. I have also asked about the viscosity measurement. I paid for the normal package, not the maximum one, which I will do next time (they have a number of levels). That may be why it is not included, but I have asked anyway.

Chrome is very low and aluminium looks bang average from what I have seen, so no issues there.

Agree on the silicon, that is high. I use a foam pipercross filter (oiled) but I am purchasing an AFE as they seem to report well in terms of performance and filtration.

I will be doing an oil change in the next couple of weeks, so intend to do another one of these after a few thousand miles on that change and see whats what.

NOTE: First time I have done this, so maybe missed some things. AND there are not an abundance of places in the UK so it was difficult finding one that was reasonably priced and open.
 

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@XtremeRevolution

Heard back.

So, they use the flashpoint method for the package I paid for. It came in at less than 0.5% so they report at 0. The highest package uses gas chromatography which I may opt for next time but this doesn't concern me too much.

They did comment that the viscosity was a little low for the grade of oil (but within 5% of expected) so nothing to be too concerned.over. I may look for a different oil next time..

My main reason for doing this was concerns over oil consumption maybe via worn rings etc...but nothing points to that in this report they say.
 

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@XtremeRevolution

Heard back.

So, they use the flashpoint method for the package I paid for. It came in at less than 0.5% so they report at 0. The highest package uses gas chromatography which I may opt for next time but this doesn't concern me too much.

They did comment that the viscosity was a little low for the grade of oil (but within 5% of expected) so nothing to be too concerned.over. I may look for a different oil next time..

My main reason for doing this was concerns over oil consumption maybe via worn rings etc...but nothing points to that in this report they say.
Told you. They don't test it. They do what Blackstone does and they measure flash point and attempt to estimate a fuel dilution based on that. It is an extremely inaccurate method for measuring fuel dilution. I actually had a customer send his oil to Blackstone Labs and to Polaris Labs (same oil, two different labs), and using the flash point method, Blackstone found no fuel dilution while Polaris Labs found 4.4%. Note that anything over 5% is severe. BIG miss. Polaris Labs uses GC.

"It came in at 0.5%" is based on their calculation. It could be 2-4% and they wouldn't know it. You cannot trust that number. Throw it out; it's useless.

We don't measure viscosity based on percentage visocsity drop. We measure it by whether or not it has fallen of grade and by how much. Any viscosity loss needs to be evaluated critically. Some viscosity loss from fuel dilution is acceptable, but viscosity shear of the base oil itself without any fuel dilution is reason for concern. That points to an oil quality issue which, when combined with potential fuel dilution, can increase wear.

Oil consumption will have more to do with volatility than piston ring wear, and an oil analysis report would only show you how much piston ring wear you experienced over the last service interval. Oil analysis is very limited in scope.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Told you. They don't test it. They do what Blackstone does and they measure flash point and attempt to estimate a fuel dilution based on that. It is an extremely inaccurate method for measuring fuel dilution. I actually had a customer send his oil to Blackstone Labs and to Polaris Labs (same oil, two different labs), and using the flash point method, Blackstone found no fuel dilution while Polaris Labs found 4.4%. Note that anything over 5% is severe. BIG miss. Polaris Labs uses GC.

"It came in at 0.5%" is based on their calculation. It could be 2-4% and they wouldn't know it. You cannot trust that number. Throw it out; it's useless.

We don't measure viscosity based on percentage visocsity drop. We measure it by whether or not it has fallen of grade and by how much. Any viscosity loss needs to be evaluated critically. Some viscosity loss from fuel dilution is acceptable, but viscosity shear of the base oil itself without any fuel dilution is reason for concern. That points to an oil quality issue which, when combined with potential fuel dilution, can increase wear.

Oil consumption will have more to do with volatility than piston ring wear, and an oil analysis report would only show you how much piston ring wear you experienced over the last service interval. Oil analysis is very limited in scope.
All useful information, thanks. Learning curve for me. To be clear though, I wasn't actually defending the place, rather relaying what I was told; I wasn't defending their methods. But I understand what you are saying.

Well, all I can do is action what I have received; change the filter, do an oil change and then do another sample in a few months and see if there are any trends of concern...

Thanks

EDIT - I'll make sure to use the top package next time to get the GC done for the dilution!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
No problem!

I add as much data points on this site (in all areas) as there arent many UK 124's and its good for people searching in the future!

However, after a 100 mile drive yesterday I have dropped another notch on the dipstick, so I strongly suspect I do have something not quite right internaly. Will be doing a compression test tomorrow, oil and filter change and then monitor very closely. I have a specialist within 60 miles so will be going to them i think in the next few weeks.
 

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Out of interest I would be interested in the name and location of the specialist you've mentioned as its always good to know in case anything out of the ordinary crops up. Cheers
 

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Autolusso - Penrith. But they ahve a few across UK.

I may start a thread about this problem....once I have done the comp test and new oil, will monitor, but if persists will be taking it to them for analysis.
 

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Cheers Boddle Ive used the main site south a few years ago to delete the EGR on my wife's Alfa 159. I didn't think about the connection with the 1.4 Multiair in the Giulietta
 

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Yep. Had them do.work on my 170MA. Not many know multiairs like they do.
 

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Do you have a catch can?
 

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Yes, but only fitted 300 miles ago. Also cleaned the AOS, sorted the leaky pcv valve. I used to have loads of oil in the intake tube so was expecting some in the catch can but nothing yet.

I seriously believe its valve or spark plug seals...but will do a comp test to rule out rings..these are plugs after 5k miles, cylinder 1 (2nd from left) looks a little fouled but the rest pretty good

76475


Current consumption looks to be 1 litre per 1500 miles. So clearly too high. But it was never like this 10k miles ago. I have always checked oil every other fuel fill.
 
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