Question for Greg

4048 Views 22 Replies 9 Participants Last post by [email protected], Dec 16, 2016

SteveWy

Discussion Starter · Dec 10, 2016

The new tune testing going on ...could you shed some light to me on this ...will this be a reflash of the ECU using a laptop or handheld computer, and not the need to plug in wiring throughout the engine compartment? I dealt with changing a sensor in my 2010 Miata (plugging new wiring into the backside of the engine, and it was not fun) ...so I will not be getting the 'lite' version, but would get an under the dash, plug-in ECU flash version.

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Greg

· #2 · Dec 10, 2016

SteveWy said:
The new tune testing going on ...could you shed some light to me on this ...will this be a reflash of the ECU using a laptop or handheld computer, and not the need to plug in wiring throughout the engine compartment? I dealt with changing a sensor in my 2010 Miata (plugging new wiring into the backside of the engine, and it was not fun) ...so I will not be getting the 'lite' version, but would get an under the dash, plug-in ECU flash version.

I can't say anything really specific. However a clever person could look at our current product line for the 500 Abarth and the Alfa Romeo 4C and make some pretty good guesses about what we plan for the 124. Essentially anything we have for those cars, we plan to do with the 124. As far as ECU tunes there are many options 1. Bench flash, which means you send us your ECU and we flash it here and send it back. 2. ECU clone, meaning we sell you a new ECU with our tune on it and you swap it out for your original ECU. Of course this is expensive because you have to buy an ECU, plus the tune. 3 Flashing through the OBD 2 port.

We are working on all of these, but that doesn't mean that they will all come to market. I just can't say more at this time.

Greg

Reactions: 2

SteveWy

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 10, 2016

Thank you kind sir ....

PureAdrenaline

· #4 · Dec 11, 2016

Greg said:
I can't say anything really specific. However a clever person could look at our current product line for the 500 Abarth and the Alfa Romeo 4C and make some pretty good guesses about what we plan for the 124. Essentially anything we have for those cars, we plan to do with the 124. As far as ECU tunes there are many options 1. Bench flash, which means you send us your ECU and we flash it here and send it back. 2. ECU clone, meaning we sell you a new ECU with our tune on it and you swap it out for your original ECU. Of course this is expensive because you have to buy an ECU, plus the tune. 3 Flashing through the OBD 2 port.

We are working on all of these, but that doesn't mean that they will all come to market. I just can't say more at this time.

Greg

I will settle for a clone...switch in and out when required.>

SteveWy

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 11, 2016

PureAdrenaline said:
I will settle for a clone...switch in and out when required.>

My guess is, that Greg could email to us an original OEM tune that could be flashed back in should the need ever arise ...if the tuning is developed using a laptop and the OBD2.

PureAdrenaline

· #6 · Dec 11, 2016

SteveWy said:
My guess is, that Greg could email to us an original OEM tune that could be flashed back in should the need ever arise ...if the tuning is developed using a laptop and the OBD2.

Normally any download into the ECU will change the flash counter....this means the dealer will know you have flashed the memory.

Greg

· #7 · Dec 12, 2016

I sort of dislike discussing what I call "vaporware" or "fantasy products" so I want to be clear. At this moment the only tuning option we offer for the 124 is Euro+Drive Lite. So all the other things we are working on are purely hypothetical. Perhaps it's a little stronger than hypothetical since we have done all of these things with this engine in other cars, but please keep in mind that as of today's date, these other options don't exist commercially.

Let's review some pros and cons.

1. The ECU clone option has one big advantage. It's that you can swap back in your stock ECU at any time and nobody will know you ran a hotter tune. The tune itself is also very good because we can control any ECU parameter. We don't have the limitations we have with add-on piggy back type devices. There are two downsides. The first is cost. It's the most expensive option because you have to buy a whole new ECU and still pay for the tune. The other drawback is if you want to change to another tune you have to send it back to us.

2. Bench flash. This has the same tuning advantages as the ECU clone but without the expense of purchasing another ECU. Of course your car will be down while the ECU is in transit to and from us. The dealer can not tell that it's not running a stock tune by reading it through the OBD 2 port. However they can see the flash counter. Although to my knowledge it's never happened, it's theoretically possible that they will see that the ECU has been flashed once more than they can account for. However it's also possible the bench flash will not alter the counter. It's too soon to know.

3. OBD 2 port flash. This writes a new tune onto the ECU through the OBD 2 port. This DOES NOT use a laptop. It uses a handheld device we ship to you. The device can hold 5 different tunes including your stock tune so you can change the tunes whenever you want. Since there is hardware involved, the cost is usually above a bench flash, but below an ECU clone. The big advantage here is that when we release new tunes they get uploaded into your personal file in the cloud and you don't need to remove the ecu from your car and wait for the post office.

These options may come soon, or maybe years away. We still don't have any of these options for the 2014+ 500 Abarths. That said, it's actually a little easier with the 124 and we feel we are getting pretty close. My personal car does have a flash tune on it, and it's great.

Greg

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Reactions: 1

PureAdrenaline

· #8 · Dec 12, 2016

Thanks for that explanation...Now we wait.

frankmar

· #9 · Dec 12, 2016

My personal car does have a flash tune on it, and it's great. How many HP does this have and what would be a ball park cost. tia.

Greg

· #10 · Dec 12, 2016

frankmar said:
My personal car does have a flash tune on it, and it's great. How many HP does this have and what would be a ball park cost. tia.

The details are still classified, but you can certainly get a good idea by looking at our offerings for the 500 Abarth which has the same engine.

Greg

SteveWy

Discussion Starter · #11 · Dec 12, 2016

Greg said:
The details are still classified, but you can certainly get a good idea by looking at our offerings for the 500 Abarth which has the same engine.

Greg

Greg ...would these hypothetical tunes that someday may or may not leave the North Pole, work equally well in a 'manual' vs 'automatic' tranny, or would you (Santa) need to know what tranny one has in his or her car, if or when that day should ever come?

Greg

· #12 · Dec 12, 2016

Manual or automatic. Either one will be fine.

Greg

Reactions: 1

kpoling

· #13 · Dec 12, 2016

Greg said:
I sort of dislike discussing what I call "vaporware" or "fantasy products" so I want to be clear. At this moment the only tuning option we offer for the 124 is Euro+Drive Lite. So all the other things we are working on are purely hypothetical. Perhaps it's a little stronger than hypothetical since we have done all of these things with this engine in other cars, but please keep in mind that as of today's date, these other options don't exist commercially.

Let's review some pros and cons.

1. The ECU clone option has one big advantage. It's that you can swap back in your stock ECU at any time and nobody will know you ran a hotter tune. The tune itself is also very good because we can control any ECU parameter. We don't have the limitations we have with add-on piggy back type devices. There are two downsides. The first is cost. It's the most expensive option because you have to buy a whole new ECU and still pay for the tune. The other drawback is if you want to change to another tune you have to send it back to us.

2. Bench flash. This has the same tuning advantages as the ECU clone but without the expense of purchasing another ECU. Of course your car will be down while the ECU is in transit to and from us. The dealer can not tell that it's not running a stock tune by reading it through the OBD 2 port. However they can see the flash counter. Although to my knowledge it's never happened, it's theoretically possible that they will see that the ECU has been flashed once more than they can account for. However it's also possible the bench flash will not alter the counter. It's too soon to know.

3. OBD 2 port flash. This writes a new tune onto the ECU through the OBD 2 port. This DOES NOT use a laptop. It uses a handheld device we ship to you. The device can hold 5 different tunes including your stock tune so you can change the tunes whenever you want. Since there is hardware involved, the cost is usually above a bench flash, but below an ECU clone. The big advantage here is that when we release new tunes they get uploaded into your personal file in the cloud and you don't need to remove the ecu from your car and wait for the post office.

These options may come soon, or maybe years away. We still don't have any of these options for the 2014+ 500 Abarths. That said, it's actually a little easier with the 124 and we feel we are getting pretty close. My personal car does have a flash tune on it, and it's great.

Greg

I understand not wanting to announce a product before its time....but...let me just say that if - hypothetically - there were a tune available from a port flash - I'd be sending my money.

(Just don't think I can get around the back of the engine for the EDL.)

Greg

· #14 · Dec 12, 2016

kpoling said:
I understand not wanting to announce a product before its time....but...let me just say that if - hypothetically - there were a tune available from a port flash - I'd be sending my money. (Just don't think I can get around the back of the engine for the EDL.)

I understand. I'll say that I think you can get to the back of the engine. I have done it a few times now, and others have managed. If you follow my instructions it's not too bad.

Greg

Reactions: 1

Godina

· #15 · Dec 13, 2016 (Edited)

Greg said:
I understand. I'll say that I think you can get to the back of the engine. I have done it a few times now, and others have managed. If you follow my instructions it's not too bad.

Greg

Greg, I have an abarth sleeping till spring, but When it's time to awake my princess, I would like her to appear like she's been working out. Not a racer, just enough to eat up miata's and stock 124's on the street. Maybe more mussel later.

Can you give a step by step order of what parts to upgrade first and then progress from there?

Thanks, Go.

Greg

· #16 · Dec 13, 2016

Godina said:
Greg, I have an abarth sleeping till spring, but When it's time to awake my princess, I would like her to appear like she's been working out. Not a racer, just enough to eat up miata's and stock 124's on the street. Maybe more mussel later.

Can you give a step by step order of what parts to upgrade first and then progress from there?

Thanks, Go.

Hi Godina,

My official suggestion is to go with Euro+Drive Lite and an intake, probably a V1 since it's the most popular. Unofficially....spring is a long ways off. You may want to hold off and see what else comes out before then.

Greg

Reactions: 3

jalanjalan

· #17 · Dec 13, 2016

Greg said:
Hi Godina,

My official suggestion is to go with Euro+Drive Lite and an intake, probably a V1 since it's the most popular. Unofficially....spring is a long ways off. You may want to hold off and see what else comes out before then.

Greg

What effect does the EDL have vis a vis the sport switch on the Abarth?

Greg

· #18 · Dec 13, 2016

jalanjalan said:
What effect does the EDL have vis a vis the sport switch on the Abarth?

It has exactly the same effect in or out of sport mode, meaning it raises boost by exactly the same amount either way. Understand that all tuner boxes for this car are additive products, meaning they add boost to whatever the ECU commands. (when triggered, usually above a certain throttle position, or rpm level, or something else depending on how they are set up).

Greg

Reactions: 1

Unknownsir

· #19 · Dec 15, 2016 (Edited)

PureAdrenaline said:
Normally any download into the ECU will change the flash counter....this means the dealer will know you have flashed the memory.

As the car manufacturers are constantly offering flash updates and actually encourage their mechanics to perform them any time the car is in, even if it doesn't have an issue, why then might we care that we add another number to the flash counter? My last two trucks and last car were all flashed several times. My 124 has already had a flash of some type during prep.

PureAdrenaline

· #20 · Dec 15, 2016 (Edited)

Unknownsir said:
As the car manufacturers are constantly offering flash updated and actually encourage their mechanics to perform them any time the car is in even of it doesn't have an issue, why then might we care that we add another number to the flash counter? My last two trucks and last car were all flashed several times. My 124 has already had a flash of some type during prep.

I am not saying that all dealers/service departments are going to check the flash counter or that they even know how. What I am saying is what Greg explained earlier. If they know what they are doing and want to check the records for your vehicle they could detect that the car had been flashed outside of a Fiat dealership. Then its up to them if they want to void your drivetrain warranty. I have heard of this being done by General Motors for the last several years. It does exist...at least in the GM world...if Fiat cares about it I have no idea.

But there are always ways around it...via the cloned ECU. At least for now.

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