We have the Karcepts bars in our Fiat 124 currently. Not a choice for everyone, but ideal for autocross/track car for adjustments that can happen front and rear while waiting in line for the next autocross run. Between events I run them full soft for street compliance. If YOU autocross seriously, look at these, if you don't autocross these are very likely massive overkill on features and price.
Our Progress Sways are the affordable Racer choice, and install really not a big deal, about a third the cost of Karcepts and more than enough bar for fast track and autocross plus canyons, etc. When we developed these bars we recognized potential 'tear out' issue at rear and included supports that box the mounts. With boxing rear mounts found we didn't need bar as thick at the rear (effective rate as installed vs bar on flex mount).
Dedicated Street users....we suggest keep it simple and go to our super affordable RoadsterSport Sways.
In general, real world 'street' users should NOT do only the front bar. Doing just one bar is about SCCA autocross rules, not doing things right. SCCA decided at some point in the distant past that for entry level 'Stock' (which is now 'Street') classes the rules would limit you to one sway bar choice, change front or rear but not both. Folks not racing just assume all the time that this one bar thing is the 'right' way to do things because so many in SCCA do that, but it is not about doing things balanced or right. In fact, if you do just one bar and nothing else the car is usually pretty badly unbalanced. Nonetheless, for autocross CS class the one bar rule means, as Christian suggests, that your best choice is doing the front bar upgrade for CS. This would leave you with serious understeer if you do only the front bar. The hole in the SCCA rules big enough to drive a truck through is with the bump stops. You cannot go longer, but you can go stiffer. This car is already using long stops as part of the spring setup, those long stops are a progressive spring setup as you lean harder and harder in the turns. So, for CS class we give you the big front bar upgrade and we balance that with stiffer rear stops relative to the front to 'rebalance' the car. That's why Christian notes harder stops for the rear....and softer front, fixing the balance issue you otherwise get with adding BIG front bar without upgrading rear sway bar. If not in SCCA CS, just upgrade both bars. The adjustable KONI also give us the ability to further dial the balance as needed.
On exhaust the Street category can indeed do cat-back. The ND Miata has a midpipe converter so ND owners can change only the muffler, on Fiat with just one converter under the turbo you are free in CS to run our entire RoadsterSport Complete System of Crosspipe, Midpipe, Muffler Delete.
100% agree. If I were building an STR car, I'd be running both Karcepts bars. I have one of the thinner bars from my one friend. I'm just not convinced I want to use that bar for mixed street use.
I'm thinking the progress bars may be the way to go for street/track use, whereas the Karcepts bars would be amazing for a dedicated autox/track car. There's so much adjustability with those bars, it may be overkill on a non-nationally prepped car, though.
I'm also not a fan of the Street class rules for SCCA. Just seems so dumb to have a class that's "stock", but allow guys to run $5000 shocks that have nitrogen canisters etc... It's just so weird that $5000 shocks are allowed, but a $150 swaybar in the back of the car is not legal. Either way, those are the rules so you can't argue. I just wish they'd make a Solo Spec Roadster class for Miatas/Fiats like the SSC class for the BRZ/FRS/86. That class looks great, spec tires/shocks etc. All cars are the same minus alignment.
I’ve installed the progress bar from GWR twice now.
The first time was a PITA because I didn’t read the instructions.
The second time went smoother but was still not an easy task.
I would rate it an advanced installation.
Looking at the Karcepts it is pricey but would be an easy install for the less experienced diy which may break even cost wise doing it yourself instead of taking it to a mechanic.
Both times I saved time by cutting the stock bar for removal since the stock bushings are bonded to the bar.
I’ve installed the progress bar from GWR twice now.
The first time was a PITA because I didn’t read the instructions.
The second time went smoother but was still not an easy task.
I would rate it an advanced installation.
Looking at the Karcepts it is pricey but would be an easy install for the less experienced diy which may break even cost wise doing it yourself instead of taking it to a mechanic.
Both times I saved time by cutting the stock bar for removal since the stock bushings are bonded to the bar.
Thanks Philip. If you cut the OEM bar to remove it, were you able to get the new bars in without dropping the steering column? If getting the new bar in is an exercise in patience and brushing off your favorite 'adult' language, I can handle that. Dropping the steering column on the other hand sounds a bit scary.
Also, does anyone know if the Abarth OEM bar the same part used by Mazda? OEM Mazda bars can be had for $100 or so I hear, so in the unlikely event I wanted to go back to stock replacing a cut bar wouldn't be that big a deal.
Thanks Philip. If you cut the OEM bar to remove it, were you able to get the new bars in without dropping the steering column? If getting the new bar in is an exercise in patience and brushing off your favorite 'adult' language, I can handle that. Dropping the steering column on the other hand sounds a bit scary.
Also, does anyone know if the Abarth OEM bar the same part used by Mazda? OEM Mazda bars can be had for $100 or so I hear, so in the unlikely event I wanted to go back to stock replacing a cut bar wouldn't be that big a deal.
If you do the Karcepts bar, yes, you can install it without removing the steering rack, or loosening it.
The Karcepts bar is 3 piece, so you can slide the bar through, and just hook the arms on. The other 1 piece bars you cannot install without doing the whole process.
If you do the Karcepts bar, yes, you can install it without removing the steering rack, or loosening it.
The Karcepts bar is 3 piece, so you can slide the bar through, and just hook the arms on. The other 1 piece bars you cannot install without doing the whole process.
OK - thanks. Need to think about if I can really be bothered with this. I'd like to dial out some lean in the corners, but I'm not sure it bothers me THAT much.
Thanks Philip. If you cut the OEM bar to remove it, were you able to get the new bars in without dropping the steering column? If getting the new bar in is an exercise in patience and brushing off your favorite 'adult' language, I can handle that. Dropping the steering column on the other hand sounds a bit scary.
Also, does anyone know if the Abarth OEM bar the same part used by Mazda? OEM Mazda bars can be had for $100 or so I hear, so in the unlikely event I wanted to go back to stock replacing a cut bar wouldn't be that big a deal.
@68wooley
Cutting the stock bar was to ease removing it.
Installation of the progress bar the first time was very colorful in the language department.
The second time wasn’t so bad because I knew to lower the steering rack.
Just make sure to mark the steering column and the rack so you get the spline orientation correct.
Like I said though not for the amateur mechanic.
What is the possible interference on the Karcepts FSB mentioned on the site? It mentions intercooler piping, which is of a concern due to the CS and STU ruleset. More specifically, has anyone successfully installed the Karcepts bar on a car equipped with stock intercooler/piping?
Needed a proper splitter for a while against some of our fast competition. APR helped us out by doing a basic kit, price details and pics of NORMAL INSTALL on our site at THIS LINK.
EVO we have run against locally, notice custom aluminum splitter.
As usual we cannot simply follow...
Bring More Shiny Bits!
Karcepts Sway Bars....specs CLICK HERE.
Time for sway bars I can adjust between runs at Autocross and track events. At today's SCCA event the balance was good but at the last event I wanted to make a big adjustment on the fly and could not easily do it between runs...
I doubt the 6UL wheels can be beat for LIGHT and STRONG.
Not merely something that can be bolted to this platform, but actually developed ON THIS PLATFORM. When the platform that became the ND, and now the Fiat 124 was in testing at Mazda, we were there measuring to make wheels precisely...
Getting a few emails every morning asking if we are open and shipping. YES...we are shipping fun for you to install during the lock down!
We have adjusted our team's approach per social distancing for worker guidelines, with half our team working from home for half the week and then we...
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