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2019 Spider 124 Abarth
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Discussion Starter #1
My Mini's had twin turbos and I never saw any mention of a blanket. The Fiat is the first instance where I have ever seen this mentioned. Is it simply a result of the turbo sitting so high on the block? I did order one today, not because I expect and performance enhancement (I tend to drive very conservatively), but because the videos I watched have me scared that the paint on my hood will melt after a long trip.
 

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2018 124 Spider Abarth Custom
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A blanket is not required but it helps cut the underhood temps. The stock set up will work just fine but heat management helps a lot on this engine.

I have had custom blankets made for the turbo manifold below, the catless down pipe, and cross pipe that passes through the oil pan arch to cut even more radiant heat from the bay.
 

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While I can't speak to the efficacy of the blankets actually improving the underhood thermals as I haven't fitted or tested one myself. They have seen widespread positive feedback, Calehedron above further reinforcing that.

From my personal experience the stock setup is not good enough to manage the thermals in extremely hot weather with the black vinyl bonnet. In the summer of last year we had a heatwave in Western Europe (I know some of you Americans are gonna laugh at these rookie temperatures). Which was at 38ºc (100 F) on the day that I went to the Nurburgring in my black bonnet'd 124 and was also the day that this issue first reared its head. You know the black rubberised accordion intake hose that goes from your filter box to your turbo. Yeah well that got so hot that under boost it would deform and collapse so much it starved the engine/turbo of air and the car would repeatedly drop boost on throttle. The issue was worst if the car was left sitting in the baking sun idle for a while. It would decrease in frequency if you were really pushing the car as I imagine the airflow would cool the bay and hoses. I didn't get a video at the time but we verified by revving the car and would watch the round hose squash like a pancake when the turbo started to suck. The issue only arose on really hot and clear sunny days. I eventually solved it by switching to the Momentum GT intake which comes with a much stronger hose. I can't personally attest but I imagine the EC intakes would also prevent this (I have their intercooler hoses which are very well made).

Although this sounds pretty terrible I only had this issue on about 3 days in a year of having the car at the time. So it does take a pretty extreme set of circumstances to arise.
 

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2018 124 Spider Abarth Custom
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While I can't speak to the efficacy of the blankets actually improving the underhood thermals as I haven't fitted or tested one myself. They have seen widespread positive feedback, Calehedron above further reinforcing that.

From my personal experience the stock setup is not good enough to manage the thermals in extremely hot weather with the black vinyl bonnet. In the summer of last year we had a heatwave in Western Europe (I know some of you Americans are gonna laugh at these rookie temperatures). Which was at 38ºc (100 F) on the day that I went to the Nurburgring in my black bonnet'd 124 and was also the day that this issue first reared its head. You know the black rubberised accordion intake hose that goes from your filter box to your turbo. Yeah well that got so hot that under boost it would deform and collapse so much it starved the engine/turbo of air and the car would repeatedly drop boost on throttle. The issue was worst if the car was left sitting in the baking sun idle for a while. It would decrease in frequency if you were really pushing the car as I imagine the airflow would cool the bay and hoses. I didn't get a video at the time but we verified by revving the car and would watch the round hose squash like a pancake when the turbo started to suck. The issue only arose on really hot and clear sunny days. I eventually solved it by switching to the Momentum GT intake which comes with a much stronger hose. I can't personally attest but I imagine the EC intakes would also prevent this (I have their intercooler hoses which are very well made).

Although this sounds pretty terrible I only had this issue on about 3 days in a year of having the car at the time. So it does take a pretty extreme set of circumstances to arise.
Once the short block arrives and I get everything rebuilt and running, I plan on collecting a LOT of temperature delta data using all the blankets and other insulating methods I am putting on. I have the use of another Spider that has nothing more than the turbo blanket to compare it to under the same conditions (if he can keep up!).

I am in the Phoenix, Arizona valley, 100F is a NICE day in the summer. Already broken the record for most days over 110 and plenty of summer to go. It is pure HELL on this engine, the 500s are even worse with the intake rotated to the inside of the tunnel and they hold heat even more. I've logged over 160F AIT on the 500 and that's with the EC FMIC.

That's why I have had more blankets designed to try out and if the data looks good, PTP will release them for general sale. I use 60water/40meth injection for the AIT cooling and knock protection more than the power boost it can provide using rich mixes or pure meth. I am trying to decide between a mist setup for the FMIC or going straight to CO2 cooling because I can daisy chain fuel and internal boosted air coolers to that system.
 

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Once the short block arrives and I get everything rebuilt and running, I plan on collecting a LOT of temperature delta data using all the blankets and other insulating methods I am putting on. I have the use of another Spider that has nothing more than the turbo blanket to compare it to under the same conditions (if he can keep up!).

I am in the Phoenix, Arizona valley, 100F is a NICE day in the summer. Already broken the record for most days over 110 and plenty of summer to go. It is pure HELL on this engine, the 500s are even worse with the intake rotated to the inside of the tunnel and they hold heat even more. I've logged over 160F AIT on the 500 and that's with the EC FMIC.

That's why I have had more blankets designed to try out and if the data looks good, PTP will release them for general sale. I use 60water/40meth injection for the AIT cooling and knock protection more than the power boost it can provide using rich mixes or pure meth. I am trying to decide between a mist setup for the FMIC or going straight to CO2 cooling because I can daisy chain fuel and internal boosted air coolers to that system.
I would be very interested to know the outcome of a before and after bay temperatures!

I'm not sure how much of a nerdy nerd you are but I've experimented with some Infrared temperature sensors that connect to Arduino like devices and can wirelessly transmit the data. The prototypes I had made worked okay but I needed to spend some time on a proper casing and mount for it all. Anyway I could point you in the direction of the devices is used if you wanted to log / graph bay temps without needing to skew the results by coming to a stop, opening the bonnet and then IR gunning the bay and such, assuming you don't already have a plan for this.

Although if you have differences between intercoolers (and subsequently things like the removal of the air deflectors to the side of the stock intercooler) or even the intake style then it might be quite hard to be scientific and know which variable might be the result of any differences. Nonetheless it would be interesting to see!

I can't imagine how this car must run in those sorts of temps. It feels lethargic on a warm day over here let alone 40+ degrees. It's a little disappointing to see so much space in the bay of a 124 and so little in terms of proper heat management. When I picked up the stock intercooler. Man was I shocked at how light and small it was. And the stupid plastic bits on the end which have seeped oil (and probably boost) on both of my spiders and have had the metal bolts just spin in place when trying to take them off. In a 500 it's somewhat understandable given how packed in it all is. Sucky that your mods have basically allowed you to claw back the horsepower other people take for granted.

Interesting you mention the mist setup, I had the bumper off my 124 that has the headlamp washers. It looked like it would be a really quite neat job to reposition them over the intercooler. I didn't trace it back to where I guess there is like a solonoid or something that controls the flow but it's on my list to see if I can rewire the activation for the headlamp washers separately. I'm not sure how much of a daily your 124 is, I have one for 100% track duty but if you are less concerned with creature comforts then this could be an option. You would also want to not really mix anything but water in your washer fluid. Which you may or may not be comfortable with.

Have you had any specific tuning changes done to account for the water/meth or just added it in and ECU does the rest? I'm guessing you plumbed in using the throttle body spacer with the little port thing

The CO2 cooling is new to me, what would that entail? Is that like spraying the FMIC with pressurised CO2? Like water but colder

I'm also interested in what you are having done to your block! Are you boring it or something?
 

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2018 124 Spider Abarth Custom
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I would be very interested to know the outcome of a before and after bay temperatures!

I'm not sure how much of a nerdy nerd you are but I've experimented with some Infrared temperature sensors that connect to Arduino like devices and can wirelessly transmit the data. The prototypes I had made worked okay but I needed to spend some time on a proper casing and mount for it all. Anyway I could point you in the direction of the devices is used if you wanted to log / graph bay temps without needing to skew the results by coming to a stop, opening the bonnet and then IR gunning the bay and such, assuming you don't already have a plan for this.

Although if you have differences between intercoolers (and subsequently things like the removal of the air deflectors to the side of the stock intercooler) or even the intake style then it might be quite hard to be scientific and know which variable might be the result of any differences. Nonetheless it would be interesting to see!

I can't imagine how this car must run in those sorts of temps. It feels lethargic on a warm day over here let alone 40+ degrees. It's a little disappointing to see so much space in the bay of a 124 and so little in terms of proper heat management. When I picked up the stock intercooler. Man was I shocked at how light and small it was. And the stupid plastic bits on the end which have seeped oil (and probably boost) on both of my spiders and have had the metal bolts just spin in place when trying to take them off. In a 500 it's somewhat understandable given how packed in it all is. Sucky that your mods have basically allowed you to claw back the horsepower other people take for granted.

Interesting you mention the mist setup, I had the bumper off my 124 that has the headlamp washers. It looked like it would be a really quite neat job to reposition them over the intercooler. I didn't trace it back to where I guess there is like a solonoid or something that controls the flow but it's on my list to see if I can rewire the activation for the headlamp washers separately. I'm not sure how much of a daily your 124 is, I have one for 100% track duty but if you are less concerned with creature comforts then this could be an option. You would also want to not really mix anything but water in your washer fluid. Which you may or may not be comfortable with.

Have you had any specific tuning changes done to account for the water/meth or just added it in and ECU does the rest? I'm guessing you plumbed in using the throttle body spacer with the little port thing

The CO2 cooling is new to me, what would that entail? Is that like spraying the FMIC with pressurised CO2? Like water but colder

I'm also interested in what you are having done to your block! Are you boring it or something?
Most of the details can be found in my build post Going All In!

I am on the far end of the ultra nerd scale. As a side duty for my job, I am nationally certified in thermography. Plenty of thermocouples, wiring, 16 input datalogger, handheld meters, IR cameras, and pyrometers on hand to collect the data with in real time.

I experienced a ring land failure due to a massive boost spike last October and have spent the last 10.5 months trying to get it repaired and upgraded with .5mm larger forged pistons with lower C/R, rings set up properly for N2O in the future, forged rods, ported head, turbo manifold, and even smoothing the inside of the plastic intake. The water meth injection map was tuned on the EC dyno in conjunction with the ECU tune for the Phase 4 level, I could run a Phase 3 with no injection. I inject just after the cold side outlet of the IC to get the most cooling effect on the AIT in the manifold, going in at the throttle body doesn't drop the temp as much so the ECU won't advance as much.

DEI makes the CO2 Cryo system and basically the purge valve is connected to a ring with holes that sprays/chills the IC. They have other inline items like fuel chiller and internal charge air coolers also as well as a small water misting system for the IC if you want both!
 

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I wanna get a turbo blanket but if I'm going to be tuning it in the future I don't think they make blanketd for different turbos. Idk where to start
 

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I wanna get a turbo blanket but if I'm going to be tuning it in the future I don't think they make blanketd for different turbos. Idk where to start
Are you just tuning or planning on putting in a 1752 or bigger turbo? Then again, it doesn't matter. You can have a blanket made for anything you want and they are a necessary item in my opinion. I had 3 custom ones that aren't even for a turbo made as noted above for about the same cost each as the turbo blanket.
 

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I bought one, as the coils are very close to the turbo. When spraying during events the cold side of the turbo is cooler. so eh, seems to work?
 

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At what point would a turbo blanket be required? I’m only going to have phase 1 on for a while and was curious.
 

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Required? Never. But any heat management that can be added even at stock performance will help a lot with this engine.
 

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Are you just tuning or planning on putting in a 1752 or bigger turbo? Then again, it doesn't matter. You can have a blanket made for anything you want and they are a necessary item in my opinion. I had 3 custom ones that aren't even for a turbo made as noted above for about the same cost each as the turbo blanket.
I was told the first thing I should do if I want to actually make more power was to start with the turbo. Then exhaust, intake and new intercooler. I got a fresh clean slate and I wanna know the right path for upgrades. I hear a lot of people battling about the different intakes too which is inconsistent. I might just start with wheel brakes and suspension
 

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I was told the first thing I should do if I want to actually make more power was to start with the turbo. Then exhaust, intake and new intercooler. I got a fresh clean slate and I wanna know the right path for upgrades. I hear a lot of people battling about the different intakes too which is inconsistent. I might just start with wheel brakes and suspension
The turbo comes just before rebuilding the block and usually the LAST step for most people. It will make 200-210WHP with the stock turbo and only concentrating on tune and everything else.
 

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That CryO2 sounds intriguing but I believe the "Cry" part of its name must be based on its price. Has anybody made a YouTube yet for repurposing an old kegerator (minus the fridge), that grill rotisserie that never got used even once, some wire coathangers (do it for the children) and a big red button into a CO2 metaintercooler?
 

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A google search ought to return a link for a very thorough study done by University of Texas on commercial diesel installations of turbo blankets. Bottom line is they improve performance. They maintain a constant heat soak on the turbo.
Best regards
Pete
 

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A google search ought to return a link for a very thorough study done by University of Texas on commercial diesel installations of turbo blankets. Bottom line is they improve performance. They maintain a constant heat soak on the turbo.
Best regards
Pete
You are correct. The blankets do two jobs, they cut radiant heat from affecting other areas of performance that don't like heat but the main function is keeping the heat inside. The warmer and more excited the flow stream, the more efficient and quickly it moves. The consistent internal temp also keeps buildup down by not allowing "condensation" from a cooler area or cold trap as we call it at work.

That is why I have chosen to blanket the exhaust/turbo manifold, the turbo, downpipe, and crosspipe for a continuous heated path. Not only am I cutting massive amounts of radiant heat on the rest of the engine and bay, I am moving the cold trap to the entrance of the mid pipe where carbon buildup is less of a concern. I can drop the midpipe yearly and check for buildup rate.
 

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I was told the first thing I should do if I want to actually make more power was to start with the turbo. Then exhaust, intake and new intercooler. I got a fresh clean slate and I wanna know the right path for upgrades. I hear a lot of people battling about the different intakes too which is inconsistent. I might just start with wheel brakes and suspension
From what I have seen the turbo is normally the last thing to be upgraded. If you do plan on upgrading the turbo then I would recommend planning accordingly with your parts. For instance a V1 intake is cheaper short term but you will eventually need a better one like the V4 so might be better saving up for better parts. Here is a thing from eurocompulsion’s website. It’s the estimated wheel horse power with their tunes and what will be needed for upgrades.
79122
79121
 

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Also you can look up the channel engineering explained(not paid advertisement) he explains very wheel and with facts the science behind the turbo blanket
 
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