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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)


The EUROCOMPULSION FRONT MOUNT INTER-COOLER KIT for the Fiat 124 Spider and 124 Abarth features heavy duty 5 ply silicone with 4 layers of our KEVTEK reinforcement. These heavy duty pieces are built to withstand pressures of 80+Psi and temperatures of 600+ degrees.

Our Silicone piping runs a single uninterrupted line from the turbo to the inter-cooler and a single uninterrupted line from the inter-cooler to the throttle, reducing possible leak points/connection points from 12 down to 4. Our Inter-cooler core features a bar & plate construction and 616ci core volume, 56% larger than the factory system's 394 ci core volume.

Combined together, our kit will effectively lower intercooler temperatures, increase turbo efficiency and longevity, while helping sustain engine power and efficiency (especially when paired with other power oriented modifications). This kit features brackets for easy mounting and requires ZERO drilling or modifications to your vehicle, maintaining factory-like fitment.

FULL INTER-COOLER KIT FEATURES:
  • Bar and Plate Inter-cooler
  • 56% increase in cooling capacity over factory system (394 to 616ci)
  • Reduced and simplified Hose routing
  • Larger Diameter Piping and End tanks for Higher Flow Capacity
    • Stock IC Diameter at Inlets and Beyond: 1.5 inch
    • EC IC Diameter at Inlets and Beyond: 2.50 inch, reduces to 2.00 inch to turbo
  • (4) Connection points VS (12) Factory Connection Points
  • Zero Drilling or Modification for Installation
  • Factory Fitment
  • Replaces ENTIRE inter-cooler system, no stock hoses used!
  • Reduced Pressure drop/Increase in Cooling efficiency
  • Minimize and eliminate boost leaks/vacuum issues
  • 5ply, KEVTEK Reinforced Silicone
  • Kit Includes Silicone Hoses, Mounting Brackets, Clamps and Inter-cooler Core

APPLICATION:

FIAT 124 Spider / 124 Abarth (Worldwide)
Auto Trans: Confirmed Fitment
Manual Trans: Fitment pending

TECHNICAL INFORMATION / TESTING DATA: HERE

KEVTEK INFORMATION: HERE

PURCHASE INFO:
HERE
PRICING: $799 + Shipping

























 

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good info...waiting on the manual fitment results.

more mods!!! lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thread update: manual fitment is confirmed on the intercooler kit! I'll need to edit the post and change the application info.
 

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Nice!!!!!!!!
 

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Purchased.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

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I received mine yesterday. I'll try to get some pics up tonight. I have no idea when I'll get to install it.
 

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I have a somewhat technical question about this. I understand the numbers, but at the end of the day, what benefits does it give while driving? The reason I say this is because it mentions 'heat soak'; it was a warm day, yesterday, and slowly moving through traffic and lights, it seemed like there wasn't much power, and felt lumpy, through the ref range until I got going after a handful of seconds. Is there any causation here?
 

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And I have another technical question.

As a Mechanical Engineer working thermo/fluids (but not in the automotive realm) I really dig the technical aspects and see the potential benefits .........however I have one nagging question.

With the greatly increased volume with the enlarged pipes, actual inter-cooler and technically the "cooler" air surely then when the turbo needs to spool up again then its first period of "work" is to pressurise that greater volume, before the increased pressure is realised at the throttle body .........possibly leading to more lag ???

Am I over thinking this ??

I was never convinced with the benefit of a larger intercooler on the A500 ........ apart from possibly heavy track work with loads of full throttle action. And I have a few acquaintances with fully sik(you say that in the States??) mod monstered EVO's and GTR's with massive intercoolers and the LAAAAAGGGGGG make them undrivable ....IMHO
 

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If you go too big, you will have trouble with lag. My guess is that EC sized this right. Their tune will help, too.
 
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And I have another technical question.

As a Mechanical Engineer working thermo/fluids (but not in the automotive realm) I really dig the technical aspects and see the potential benefits .........however I have one nagging question.
Great. I love questions.

With the greatly increased volume with the enlarged pipes, actual inter-cooler and technically the "cooler" air surely then when the turbo needs to spool up again then its first period of "work" is to pressurise that greater volume, before the increased pressure is realised at the throttle body .........possibly leading to more lag ???

Am I over thinking this ??
I wouldn't say you are over thinking it, but it's just not significant in this case. While the stock tubing does choke down below 1.5" id in several sections, it's average is probably around 1.75. Our tubing is generally no less than 2.0" id and goes up to 2.5" near the intercooler inlet and outlet. The average is probably around 2.25. This volume increase just isn't very significant when compared to the total amount of air the turbo needs to move into the engine at full boost. In short, a couple thousand ccs in the piping isn't anything compared with the 150,000+ccs the turbo will need to move in ONE SECOND at higher RPM and boost levels.

I can't detect or measure any decrease in turbo response with the bigger intercooler. If anything, it's better. Of course all testing was done on a tuned engine which obviously moves more air and thus is more adversely effected by the restrictions in the stock plumbing.

I was never convinced with the benefit of a larger intercooler on the A500 ........ apart from possibly heavy track work with loads of full throttle action. And I have a few acquaintances with fully sik(you say that in the States??) mod monstered EVO's and GTR's with massive intercoolers and the LAAAAAGGGGGG make them undrivable ....IMHO
I have no experience with EVOs, or GTRs. However I suspect that they have these giant intercoolers because they have giant turbos, and that's probably what's causing most of the lag. Or perhaps they just went way too big on the intercooler and piping. That's not what I am doing.

Regarding the A500, it sounds like you may be in Europe, most of those cars in Europe have smaller turbos and 135hp, in which case the stock intercoolers are fine. However with the 1446 turbo, when you start approaching 200hp, the stock intercooler starts to become marginal.

Clearly the factory guys know what they are doing. So let's look at what they do! On the hottest factory 500 Abarth, which is the 695 Biposto, they put in a larger intercooler and larger piping. Why? Not because I told them to, but because the normal stock intercoolers were not up to the job. The same is true of the factory built 500 Abarth rally cars.

Greg

Edit, I see you are in Australia, the same is true of those A500s :)
 

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I have a somewhat technical question about this. I understand the numbers, but at the end of the day, what benefits does it give while driving? The reason I say this is because it mentions 'heat soak'; it was a warm day, yesterday, and slowly moving through traffic and lights, it seemed like there wasn't much power, and felt lumpy, through the ref range until I got going after a handful of seconds. Is there any causation here?
What benefits are there? Good question.

On a stock engine you will get a little more power due to the lower temperatures in normal conditions. However the bigger advantage is that our intercooler is much more resistant to heat soak. The stock system will start to lose power after repeated runs, or when sitting in traffic. Our system will not lose power while the car is moving and will lose far less if sitting in traffic, and will cool down much more quickly once the car is moving.

On modified cars, the benefits are greater as there is more heat to remove, and the larger intercooler is more effective at doing that, and the larger pipes are far less restrictive.

We actually have temperature and pressure loss charts up to show the differences. At full throttle our intercooler runs about 20F cooler, which not only provides more air density, and thus power, it allows more timing, which is important. The reason you feel these cars slow down when they get hot is usually because the temp crossed a threshold that causes the ECU to pull back timing.

Greg

P.S. this product is really aimed at people who plan to modify their cars with an intake and a tune. It would probably be very rare for someone to do this upgrade as their one and only mod, although if they did, I still think they would be happy with it, but it's not the intent of the design.
 

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I want to do this so bad, but money. And time...and money...
 

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I need to find some time to tackle this.
 

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I can answer some of the questions above as well with my personal experience. I've had this intercooler on for just over a week.

The volume increase is significant as a percentage increase over the stock intercooler system. However, the increase is inconsequential as a ratio of airflow to intercooler system volume and is negated many times over by improved airlfow achieved through reduced restriction, larger average diameter, and fewer transition points.

Greg mentioned that for most driving, the stock intercooler is adequate, but I would correlate the comparison to running this engine on 87 octane. Sure, it can do it if you have nothing else available, but it won't run optimally. I used to look forward to the fall season because temperatures drop. Car guys call it "boost season," because the cooled air charge provides a significant increase in power. With this intercooler, it feels like every day is boost season. I find that the power the car now provides, even when driving in 80-95 degree weather, exceeds my expectations. I expect the car to bog down a bit, but it doesn't, and furthermore, it pulls harder up at the high RPM range where previously, it used to flatten out.

As Greg noted, as the car heats up and intake temps rise, the car begins to pull timing. This results in an immediate reduction in power. Sit in stop and go traffic for long enough with the A/C on and you'll notice some hesitation or throttle lag in addition to reduced power as you take off. This intercooler significantly alleviates that problem. We had a warm spell here lately where temps were in the high 80s and low 90s, and I definitely noticed improved hot weather performance.

Overall, performance is far more consistent, heat soak is drastically negated, and the butt dyno is happy.
 

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With all this talk of heat soak, when is the aftermarket (or the auto manufacturer for that matter) going to provide better engine bay ventilation? Just like a house's attic, have openings at the bottom and openings at the top and let the engine bay breathe. Getting rid of that big, flimsy piece of "CAFE Standards" sheet plastic under the front of the engine might help a bit, too, maybe pulling heat out under the car while moving rather than trapping it by the cover.

Simplistic approaches, but some stratigically placed vents at the rear area of the hood, or elsewhere, would, I'm guessing, work wonders at venting the engine bay. Maybe even just removing the weather stripping on the top of the firewall at the rear of the hood would help. That gasket must be providing a seal for a small fraction if an inch, multiplied by about 4 feet long, at high speeds hot air should be flushing right out of that engine bay replaced by relatively cool air entering the grill.

I'm no auto engineer, just a driver with silly thoughts going through my head. Trying to keep it simple. Thoughts? Sorry for the possible thread hijack.

Steve.
 
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No amount of engine bay ventilation will do much for the intercooler heating up, it's not even in the engine bay. However, cooling down the engine bay is still beneficial for performance and longevity of certain parts, so it is a good idea.

The best way to do this in my opinion is venting out the bottom. Vents on the hood tend to let water in, which isn't good. Removing the cowl seal tends lets heat and fumes into the HVAC system, which is bad, so that leaves us with the sides and bottom. Venting out the side, like a 70's Trans Am wouldn't look right on this car in my opinion, so that leaves the bottom.

A lot of that underbody plastic is there to help with aerodynamics. It also forces air to flow over the oil pan, which should assist in oil cooling, so we don't want to screw that up. We did a lot of testing on this with the 500 Abarth, which has an even hotter engine bay than the 124 and came up with a good solution which I was just discussing in another thread.

A big aluminum skid plate does the trick here. The aluminum acts as a giant heat sink and the airflow under it carries the heat away. Plus it's designed with extra vents. So in addition to all the benefits of having a real skid plate under the car, it helps to lower engine bay temps. However, it's not a successful product, we make them just because I really like Rally cars, and I wanted it for my own car. I'm not sure if I'll do this for the 124, if I do, it's won't be for another year or so.



Greg
 

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Engine bay airflow is a tricky subject for the reasons Greg mentioned. Even in endurance racing cars, you'll see an opening in the hood to allow the heat exchanger to work more efficiently, but not necessarily to allow more air to go through the engine bay. Exhibit A: Corvette C6R:



Your best bet is to identify the component (or system) that you need to cool down more efficiently, and approach that component with purpose-built solutions. You can learn a lot from professional racing circuits. Ultimately, performance is all about heat management. The level of heat management you require will depend on your answer to the following question: "How fast do you want to go, for how long, and under what environmental conditions?" The answer to that for a pike's peak racer will be different than that of an Abarth driven in Michigan. EC identified an area of inefficiency with the stock intercooler system and addressed that specific area. In order to determine where improvements can be made, we should evaluate the oil and water system using the same methods. Do we have concerns regarding oil temperature under extended stress? If so, we should approach that with improved oil cooling capacity before we look at engine bay ventilation.

Manufacturers go through significant efforts to design engine bay airflow patterns. Ultimately, air must pass through the radiator, around the engine, and out of the engine bay (typically underneath) in order for the radiator and intercooler to be of any use. Changes to the body panels surrounding the engine may disrupt that airflow pattern. This is one area where I'll admit I am not a subject matter expert, but I know enough about it to be cautious about any modification.

Greg, let me know if you want me to split this discussion off into another thread.
 
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