[Heypainterman]

Get it running again. I'm on day 188 now with no 124

Agreed. I hope whoever decided it was okay to sell a $30,000 auto with the "Start every two weeks or it won't start at all flaw" gets the plague! It doesn't matter how great it is, a car that WON'T START is worthless.

 

[Heypainterman]

Agreed. I hope whoever decided it was okay to sell a $30,000 auto with a "Start every two weeks or it won't start at all" flaw gets the plague! It doesn't matter how cool it is, a car that won't start is worthless!

 

[Aldo]

Today on Mount Baker, WA

 

[Stillrollin]

All nice. #4 should be a poster. We’ll done.

 

[TX_Bandit]

Planning to get the updated injectors and go to the higher output phase 3 tune. Will likely do wheels and tires too.

What injector size are you planning to go with? The reason I ask is I'm getting some interesting feedback regarding larger injectors on the Discord Fiat forum.

A bit of background. I'm seriously considering a 1440+ turbo upgrade. In my email communications with EC, they state that for maximum HP, they recommend upgrading to 550cc injectors as their testing showed the factory injectors were being maxed out.

When I mentioned this injector upgrade recommendation on the discord forum, I received numerous comments stating the larger injectors were a recipe for disaster. In a nutshell, multiple members reported that after years of running 1440+ turbos with V3 tunes without issue, they experience engine failures after upgrading to larger injectors.

I don't know all the prerequisites of swapping injectors on a V3 tune or if they were followed. But it did made me think. The stock injector is 330cc. If the V3 tune is maxing out the injector, then shouldn't a 390cc, with just under 20% more flow be the logical size? I can't help but think how replacing the stock injectors with versions almost 70% larger would introduce some tuning issues.

To be clear, I'm not trying to dissuade you from the larger injectors. I'm just sharing what I've heard while researching my turbo upgrade project. If the discord chatter is all just finger pointing after an unexpected engine failure, I would be happy to have EC jump in and share their thoughts. I want all the information I can to ensure a solid HP boost without putting reasonable reliability in jeopardy. A hot weekend fun car, not a maximum HP ticking track bomb.

 

[mtnghost]

Agreed. I hope whoever decided it was okay to sell a $30,000 auto with the "Start every two weeks or it won't start at all flaw" gets the plague! It doesn't matter how great it is, a car that WON'T START is worthless.

I have never had a starting problem with mine, and I have left it sitting for a month straight once.

 

[mtnghost]

What injector size are you planning to go with? The reason I ask is I'm getting some interesting feedback regarding larger injectors on the Discord Fiat forum.

A bit of background. I'm seriously considering a 1440+ turbo upgrade. In my email communications with EC, they state that for maximum HP, they recommend upgrading to 550cc injectors as their testing showed the factory injectors were being maxed out.

When I mentioned this injector upgrade recommendation on the discord forum, I received numerous comments stating the larger injectors were a recipe for disaster. In a nutshell, multiple members reported that after years of running 1440+ turbos with V3 tunes without issue, they experience engine failures after upgrading to larger injectors.

I don't know all the prerequisites of swapping injectors on a V3 tune or if they were followed. But it did made me think. The stock injector is 330cc. If the V3 tune is maxing out the injector, then shouldn't a 390cc, with just under 20% more flow be the logical size? I can't help but think how replacing the stock injectors with versions almost 70% larger would introduce some tuning issues.

To be clear, I'm not trying to dissuade you from the larger injectors. I'm just sharing what I've heard while researching my turbo upgrade project. If the discord chatter is all just finger pointing after an unexpected engine failure, I would be happy to have EC jump in and share their thoughts. I want all the information I can to ensure a solid HP boost without putting reasonable reliability in jeopardy. A hot weekend fun car, not a maximum HP ticking track bomb.

Whether the injectors are causing the ultimate failure can not be 100% certain. What is 100% certain is that if you have too large injectors for the fuel being used, you get cylinder wash down and a lot of oil dilution. Diluted oil especially with fuel causes the oil to break down due to the solvents in fuel. This causes oil to no be able to perform its job of protecting the surfaces. If not scaled properly or even chosen properly for the given application, this becomes a real issue. These are the facts, nothing is an opinion or hearsay. This explains the failures with as much facts that are available at this time. Also of note is it’s not just one tuner, it’s multiple. Another tuner is using significantly smaller injectors and putting out higher numbers with so far no reported failures. That is all the info I have on the matter, and I hope it helps you all get to your goals, without killing your engines.

 

[alltimesaresoon]

What injector size are you planning to go with? The reason I ask is I'm getting some interesting feedback regarding larger injectors on the Discord Fiat forum.

A bit of background. I'm seriously considering a 1440+ turbo upgrade. In my email communications with EC, they state that for maximum HP, they recommend upgrading to 550cc injectors as their testing showed the factory injectors were being maxed out.

When I mentioned this injector upgrade recommendation on the discord forum, I received numerous comments stating the larger injectors were a recipe for disaster. In a nutshell, multiple members reported that after years of running 1440+ turbos with V3 tunes without issue, they experience engine failures after upgrading to larger injectors.

I don't know all the prerequisites of swapping injectors on a V3 tune or if they were followed. But it did made me think. The stock injector is 330cc. If the V3 tune is maxing out the injector, then shouldn't a 390cc, with just under 20% more flow be the logical size? I can't help but think how replacing the stock injectors with versions almost 70% larger would introduce some tuning issues.

To be clear, I'm not trying to dissuade you from the larger injectors. I'm just sharing what I've heard while researching my turbo upgrade project. If the discord chatter is all just finger pointing after an unexpected engine failure, I would be happy to have EC jump in and share their thoughts. I want all the information I can to ensure a solid HP boost without putting reasonable reliability in jeopardy. A hot weekend fun car, not a maximum HP ticking track bomb.

I'm the guy with the failed engine after going big injectors from discord. I would not say "recipe for disaster". I would say that given the chance to do it all again, i would either have stuck with stock 330 injectors or gone to 390 injectors. My reason for going big injectors was primarily to resolve a concern with throttle closures on logs under the theory that idc's were too high. Changing to the 550's and confirmed lower idcs did not resolve the throttle closures. They were resolved separately.

There may indeed be more performance available from big injectors. It may well be very safe to go down this path with EC or other tuners. Just not worth it for me. Big injectors led to a desire and request from me the car owner to center fuel trims. At the end of that road, i had detonation and ringland failure. If you modify and tune, you are taking a chance and going beyond the OEM warranty and reliability. Happens.

That's an expensive result. i'd avoid it if i had the chance to do it all again.

Have put a new engine in, and i'm still working with EC and i love their support and think they are a great company. This time, i'm sticking with stock injectors, which lands me with a phase 2 big turbo tune planned, instead of a phase 3. That's my personal choice. Each owner will have different goals and objectives

 

[alltimesaresoon]

Here's a startup video after 192 days to show my spring plans coming home!

Enjoy

March 16, 2023

youtube.com

 

[TX_Bandit]

Here's a startup video after 192 days to show my spring plans coming home!

Enjoy

March 16, 2023

youtube.com

Congratulations! I know the rebuild has been a long, hard, delay filled road. Happy to see your car up and running again!

 

[Heypainterman]

I have never had a starting problem with mine, and I have left it sitting for a month straight once.

You're lucky, they're known for that issue.

 

[james.today]

Thanks for the info - was not aware of this issue. Just ordered some coil overs - may hold off on the phase 3 tune and injectors a bit. The only one I know running the tune and injectors is @drivendistrict - maybe he’ll chime in to offer some feedback too.

 

[RoadsterD]

My car has been sitting in pieces in the garage for over six weeks. A truly miserable ice covered winter ran rampant over my big-boy toy plans.
View attachment 97837 View attachment 97838
To add insult to injury, our end-of-winter ice storms were followed by thunderstorms and >50 MPH winds. Dallas, my home, sits in the middle of a very large, flat prairie. If the wind blows, it's either packing dust, pollen or both. In addition to replacing an attic roof turbine that is now probably somewhere in Canada, I have some serious detailing work to get all the dust off of and out of the car. Only then can the Android upgrade, interior updates, miscellaneous tweaks, and re-assembly get done.

And now I have a deadline. I've been invited to join @alltimesaresoon, @mtnghost and a few others to drive the Devil's Highway in Arizona in April. Which means I have about three weeks to complete all my projects.

So that is what I'll be doing with my Spider this weekend (and probably the next two as well).
What are your spring Spider plans?

I live in the Phoenix area and drove the Devil's Highway last summer. I've been on this road on motorcycles, and in my Honda CRX in the 80's. By far, the Spyder was WAY more fun than any of these. I got a "two fingers down" wave from a crotch rocket heading south. (I was going north). Strange to get that "wave" not being on a bike. Two minutes later, he was on my tail, having done a u-turn. I assumed he was looking for fun, so I boosted my speed, watching him almost knee dragging behind me in the turns. After a few miles, I waved him by. Now it was my turn to keep up. What a blast! The only time he pulled away was on a couple of straight aways, when it took me a bit to catch up. But I did. My girlfriend was very brave, and hung in there in the passenger's seat. I think her knuckles were a bit white, but it was also a thrilling ride for her. Made me very happy to be an owner of an ABARTH. I have the mare blue with the heritage stripe, 6 speed manual, Record Monza exhaust. Enjoy your drive, and it's fun going uphill and downhill if your route & time permits!

 

[mtnghost]

I'm the guy with the failed engine after going big injectors from discord. I would not say "recipe for disaster". I would say that given the chance to do it all again, i would either have stuck with stock 330 injectors or gone to 390 injectors. My reason for going big injectors was primarily to resolve a concern with throttle closures on logs under the theory that idc's were too high. Changing to the 550's and confirmed lower idcs did not resolve the throttle closures. They were resolved separately.

There may indeed be more performance available from big injectors. It may well be very safe to go down this path with EC or other tuners. Just not worth it for me. Big injectors led to a desire and request from me the car owner to center fuel trims. At the end of that road, i had detonation and ringland failure. If you modify and tune, you are taking a chance and going beyond the OEM warranty and reliability. Happens.

That's an expensive result. i'd avoid it if i had the chance to do it all again.

Have put a new engine in, and i'm still working with EC and i love their support and think they are a great company. This time, i'm sticking with stock injectors, which lands me with a phase 2 big turbo tune planned, instead of a phase 3. That's my personal choice. Each owner will have different goals and objectives

I was mainly referring to the guys with cam issues. Whatever the issues the injectors aren’t helping, also injectors don’t make power they support it. On pump gas not e85 there is just no need to go that big.

 

[mtnghost]

You're lucky, they're known for that issue.

I know I think it has a lot to do with how I broke in the engine on the way home from picking it up, and the oil I use. Amsoil 0w40 signature or redline 5w40. Both great, I like Amsoil a little more I think. I also have zero oil consumption issues, and I’m even more thankful for that.

 

[chilicharger665]

I have never had a starting problem with mine, and I have left it sitting for a month straight once.

I left one of mine (I've had 3 now) sitting for two weeks and it wouldn't start. I just kept trying once a day over multiple days and it finally started after I think the 3rd day.

 

[mtnghost]

I left one of mine (I've had 3 now) sitting for two weeks and it wouldn't start. I just kept trying once a day over multiple days and it finally started after I think the 3rd day.

Oh I believe it, when I was working at Alfa Maserati, I put an engine in a Gulia with a 2.0l and that sucker took forever to start up. My thoughts are oil pressure and quality make a difference in how these cars “work”