Fiat 124 Spider Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

Registered
Joined
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I found the perfect looking wheels (IMO) to go on my new abarth with Brembos but it's a 40mm offset. I really don't want to order it just to find that it doesn't fit. Wheels are 17"x8" 40mm offset tires 235/40R 17. Will It Fit??

Like to the wheels.

 

Registered
Joined
345 Posts

124 Spider Vendor
Joined
986 Posts
You are not getting 235/40 tire under stock fenders at 40mm offset. Lots more details on max tire fitment starts with our fitment intro at THIS LINK, where you will read about several choices that get 235/40 as max fitment in stock fenders using examples that are 45mm offset and even that needs a lowered car with 1.5 degrees of camber or better. And I doubt that Rotiform RSE R140 Wheel 17x8 fits the Brembo (regardless of what that website says), and it's like a 24 pound wheel which is ridiculous heavy and will make for worse ride quality.

Most wheels will not clear Brembo, at least not in factory install of that caliper. The clearance around Brembo is not really an offset question....it's more a wheel design challenge because that caliper is so chunky and so near the hub center when it is mounted on the tiny factory 11 inch rotors. We can make a wheel at 40mm offset that clears Brembo, but most designs in the 38 to 45mm offset range will NOT clear factory Brembo if you leave that caliper in factory location near the hub on small rotors. One of the few choices that does clear Brembo factory install is our popular Hypergram 17x8, available in Bronze, Grey, and the new Carbon w/Machined Lip version shown below (that's our 6 piston Wilwood front calipers, 4 piston rear but it will look similar with Brembo).





Some wheels that will not clear a factory Brembo install will clear if customer first upgrades to our Brembo Big Rotor kit, because that moves the caliper from area near hub to where the spokes tend to curve out and provide more space in most wheel designs. Example, our new 17x9 Hexaform only arrived about a week ago, does not clear factory Brembo install but will clear with our Brembo Big Rotor kit because it moves the caliper to where the spokes are curved out.



So, three strategies for Brembo wheel fitment are get a wheel designed to clear like Hypergram, or just sell the Brembo calipers and get one of our 6 piston wilwood caliper upgrades like you see on our Fiat 124 top of this post, or big rotor conversion for brembo that you see below which will increase the number of wheels that fit with that fat caliper.

Goodwin Racing BIG BRAKE Conversion for BREMBO


 

Registered
Joined
31 Posts
Malex,
According to their website, the Rotiform RSE 17x8 weigh 24 pounds each.
Definitely check out what Good-Win offers with a much lighter wheel that fits the Brembos.
 

Registered
Joined
3,686 Posts
Malex,
According to their website, the Rotiform RSE 17x8 weigh 24 pounds each.
Definitely check out what Good-Win offers with a much lighter wheel that fits the Brembos.
Wow, too heavy.
 

Super Moderator
Joined
1,026 Posts
So I found the perfect looking wheels (IMO) to go on my new abarth with Brembos but it's a 40mm offset. I really don't want to order it just to find that it doesn't fit. Wheels are 17"x8" 40mm offset tires 235/40R 17. Will It Fit??

Like to the wheels.

Hi,
Just moved this thread to where I think you meant it to be and where it will have better visibility.
Best regards
Pete
 

Super Moderator
Joined
791 Posts
You are not getting 235/40 tire under stock fenders at 40mm offset. Lots more details on max tire fitment starts with our fitment intro at THIS LINK, where you will read about several choices that get 235/40 as max fitment in stock fenders using examples that are 45mm offset and even that needs a lowered car with 1.5 degrees of camber or better. And I doubt that Rotiform RSE R140 Wheel 17x8 fits the Brembo (regardless of what that website says), and it's like a 24 pound wheel which is ridiculous heavy and will make for worse ride quality.

Most wheels will not clear Brembo, at least not in factory install of that caliper. The clearance around Brembo is not really an offset question....it's more a wheel design challenge because that caliper is so chunky and so near the hub center when it is mounted on the tiny factory 11 inch rotors. We can make a wheel at 40mm offset that clears Brembo, but most designs in the 38 to 45mm offset range will NOT clear factory Brembo if you leave that caliper in factory location near the hub on small rotors. One of the few choices that does clear Brembo factory install is our popular Hypergram 17x8, available in Bronze, Grey, and the new Carbon w/Machined Lip version shown below (that's our 6 piston Wilwood front calipers, 4 piston rear but it will look similar with Brembo).





Some wheels that will not clear a factory Brembo install will clear if customer first upgrades to our Brembo Big Rotor kit, because that moves the caliper from area near hub to where the spokes tend to curve out and provide more space in most wheel designs. Example, our new 17x9 Hexaform only arrived about a week ago, does not clear factory Brembo install but will clear with our Brembo Big Rotor kit because it moves the caliper to where the spokes are curved out.



So, three strategies for Brembo wheel fitment are get a wheel designed to clear like Hypergram, or just sell the Brembo calipers and get one of our 6 piston wilwood caliper upgrades like you see on our Fiat 124 top of this post, or big rotor conversion for brembo that you see below which will increase the number of wheels that fit with that fat caliper.

Goodwin Racing BIG BRAKE Conversion for BREMBO


I know I've gone and quoted the whole post, but man, @Good-Win Racing this is a fantastic post. Thank you for taking the time! And I'm so glad to see your Brembo big rotor kit that will help because one day I'll want new wheels but I simply have to keep Brembos on the car...if only for purely emotional reasons! Great post - thanks.
 

Premium Member
Joined
2,345 Posts

Registered
Joined
2,545 Posts
You are not getting 235/40 tire under stock fenders at 40mm offset.
I hate to disagree but it is possible. I have Enkei TS-10 17x8 wheels with 40 mm offset and 235/40R17 tires. Never had a single issue, even at stock ride height with factory alignment. And they cleared the Brembos. I've since lowered the car and switched to Wilwoods. And wheels weigh 17.8 lbs.

78268
 
  • Like
Reactions: sharkcohen

124 Spider Vendor
Joined
986 Posts
I hate to disagree but it is possible. I have Enkei TS-10 17x8 wheels with 40 mm offset and 235/40R17 tires. Never had a single issue, even at stock ride height with factory alignment. And they cleared the Brembos. I've since lowered the car and switched to Wilwoods. And wheels weigh 17.8 lbs.

View attachment 78268
Indeed several modern Enkei wheels clear a chunky caliper like the Brembo.

We are an Enkei dealer and we had a customer here with same wheel at 40mm and 235/40 tire.....with rub evidence on the fender lip and the fender liner. So perhaps you got real lucky or we just have a different definition of what is 'fit'. Our definition as a dealer must include that it doesn't actually rub anything on 10 of 10 cars we see, whether or not every customer would notice. The customer here with same TS10 wheel didn't realize it was rubbing until we showed him with car on the lift that he was slowly having a loss of paint on the inside of edges of the fender lips. We rolled the fender lips for him to cure the issue and prevent further loss of the paint.

Before others try that much grip on stock suspension will note that we think 235/40 on stock suspension is a waste of the money spent on the wheels and tires because the car doesn't have sufficient roll resistance for that much initial grip. As we note front of our wheel/tire section for Fiat 124: 'We consistently recommend folks do suspension mods BEFORE the bigger wheel and tire package because bigger wheels and tires need additional roll resistance, and lowering springs and/or coilovers provide access to more negative camber that tips the top of the tires inward under the fender lips for easier fit.' If folks just put on big wheels and tires with the soft stock suspension then with sufficiently quick steering input they can end up actually lifting the inside rear wheel as initial grip works just long enough to slam the car deep into the bumpstops and then inside rear wheel can lift and a loss of grip results in handling that can become a real mess.
 

Registered
Joined
2,545 Posts
Indeed several modern Enkei wheels clear a chunky caliper like the Brembo.

We are an Enkei dealer and we had a customer here with same wheel at 40mm and 235/40 tire.....with rub evidence on the fender lip and the fender liner. So perhaps you got real lucky or we just have a different definition of what is 'fit'. Our definition as a dealer must include that it doesn't actually rub anything on 10 of 10 cars we see, whether or not every customer would notice. The customer here with same TS10 wheel didn't realize it was rubbing until we showed him with car on the lift that he was slowly having a loss of paint on the inside of edges of the fender lips. We rolled the fender lips for him to cure the issue and prevent further loss of the paint.

Before others try that much grip on stock suspension will note that we think 235/40 on stock suspension is a waste of the money spent on the wheels and tires because the car doesn't have sufficient roll resistance for that much initial grip. As we note front of our wheel/tire section for Fiat 124: 'We consistently recommend folks do suspension mods BEFORE the bigger wheel and tire package because bigger wheels and tires need additional roll resistance, and lowering springs and/or coilovers provide access to more negative camber that tips the top of the tires inward under the fender lips for easier fit.' If folks just put on big wheels and tires with the soft stock suspension then with sufficiently quick steering input they can end up actually lifting the inside rear wheel as initial grip works just long enough to slam the car deep into the bumpstops and then inside rear wheel can lift and a loss of grip results in handling that can become a real mess.
Before I responded to this post I went and again inspected my car to make sure there wasn't a hint of rubbing anywhere and there is not. My definition of fit is if it touches anywhere, no matter how gently, it does not fit. But in this case, neither of us are wrong. I took a look at the specs of the tire I use, the Dunlop Direzza ZIII, and noticed it has a .5-.7" narrower cross section than the majority of 235/40R17 tires out there. That makes up for my 40mm offset. Also, since lowering the car I now run -1.8 degrees of camber.

I don't disagree with your advice on making suspension mods first but I did have huge success with doing the wheels and tires first. After the wheels and tires my PR lap time on my home track went from a 1:09.995 to a 1:07.171 - in the very next track day. Nothing I ever did after that took off that much time in a single blow.

I've spent a tremendous amount of time dialing in the handling of my car. I happen to be in the same town as Flyin' Miata and have raced against those guys on the same track. Below is the video they have posted on their website for their Turbocharged ND with Fox suspension, Wilwood brakes and 225 RE71 tires setting a lap time of 1:04.54. And below that is my video of a 1:04.15. The transponder gave a 1:04.098. You can also see I'm no Keith Tanner behind the wheel. I have no idea if this is FM's fastest time but it's the lap they use on their turbo product page so it was the benchmark I shot for when setting up my car. I've had my car on their dyno and their turbo ND makes about 24 whp more than my car does.


 

Super Moderator
Joined
791 Posts
... my video of a 1:04.15. The transponder gave a 1:04.098. You can also see I'm no Keith Tanner behind the wheel. I have no idea if this is FM's fastest time but it's the lap they use on their turbo product page so it was the benchmark I shot for when setting up my car. I've had my car on their dyno and their turbo ND makes about 24 whp more than my car does.

Awesome!!
 

Registered
Joined
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
You are not getting 235/40 tire under stock fenders at 40mm offset. Lots more details on max tire fitment starts with our fitment intro at THIS LINK, where you will read about several choices that get 235/40 as max fitment in stock fenders using examples that are 45mm offset and even that needs a lowered car with 1.5 degrees of camber or better. And I doubt that Rotiform RSE R140 Wheel 17x8 fits the Brembo (regardless of what that website says), and it's like a 24 pound wheel which is ridiculous heavy and will make for worse ride quality.

Most wheels will not clear Brembo, at least not in factory install of that caliper. The clearance around Brembo is not really an offset question....it's more a wheel design challenge because that caliper is so chunky and so near the hub center when it is mounted on the tiny factory 11 inch rotors. We can make a wheel at 40mm offset that clears Brembo, but most designs in the 38 to 45mm offset range will NOT clear factory Brembo if you leave that caliper in factory location near the hub on small rotors. One of the few choices that does clear Brembo factory install is our popular Hypergram 17x8, available in Bronze, Grey, and the new Carbon w/Machined Lip version shown below (that's our 6 piston Wilwood front calipers, 4 piston rear but it will look similar with Brembo).





Some wheels that will not clear a factory Brembo install will clear if customer first upgrades to our Brembo Big Rotor kit, because that moves the caliper from area near hub to where the spokes tend to curve out and provide more space in most wheel designs. Example, our new 17x9 Hexaform only arrived about a week ago, does not clear factory Brembo install but will clear with our Brembo Big Rotor kit because it moves the caliper to where the spokes are curved out.



So, three strategies for Brembo wheel fitment are get a wheel designed to clear like Hypergram, or just sell the Brembo calipers and get one of our 6 piston wilwood caliper upgrades like you see on our Fiat 124 top of this post, or big rotor conversion for brembo that you see below which will increase the number of wheels that fit with that fat caliper.

Goodwin Racing BIG BRAKE Conversion for BREMBO


Wow thank you so much for your reply. This community truly is amazing in how helpful everyone is in letting me know what challenges I could face when trying to even jump from "A" to "B" when my goal was to try to get to "Z" too quickly. @Good-Win Racing I've been on this issue for these wheels for about 2 weeks now on and off the phone with "fitment experts" and found one who's willing to work with me on these. I can't argue with you when you say that the issue is with the rotors being too close to the center not allowing for clearance. That just makes plain damn sense, and never would have thought of that if you weren't here to drop in to learn me about that key piece of information. And as for size, yes your are right, I'm not going with those 235s. But that all said, I'm going to whip out the tool box, spend some extra cash, and make this work!!! First off, nobody wants to spend money on wheels and then ship them back paying shipping and paying restock fees.... So I called bb wheels and they said they should fit, but I had remembered what your told me. I kept stressing that possibility of "what if they don't fit" and they finally told me that they where going to call a rep from Rotiform which they too said " they should fit over brembros." However I still stressed the "what if they don't fit", even after I've gotten verification by the two companies. I asked if I would still take the fall, if in fact they didn't work after telling me they would. They ended up telling me that they would send one wheel and if it fit, than great and if it didn't, then they would not charge me for return shipping or restock fees. BUT I remember what you told me about my options for actually assuring a fit. So I've decided to purchase your big break conversion since the only pictures that I have seen brembos with these wheels, is only showed with the calipers further from the center and very close to the barrel. And i don't even mind putting a 5mm spacer if needed. As far as weight goes, that extra 2 pounds wont bother me. I definitely intend on taking this car to 300 ponies, but.....its going look good first!!! Attached is a picture with 18x8 wheels made by ADV.1 (10.0 M.V1) ...These are 10K for a set and would be custom to a four lug pattern. Now Obviously I'm not going to drop that amount of cash on wheels, but what I'm trying to point out is that this car looks great with these styles of wheels and I really want to try to make this work with the information that you and everyone else here have given me. And if you see anyother issues that I maybe overlooking please let me know, and if there is away around it. Thank you.
wheels .png
 

Registered
Joined
2,545 Posts
Wow thank you so much for your reply. This community truly is amazing in how helpful everyone is in letting me know what challenges I could face when trying to even jump from "A" to "B" when my goal was to try to get to "Z" too quickly. @Good-Win Racing I've been on this issue for these wheels for about 2 weeks now on and off the phone with "fitment experts" and found one who's willing to work with me on these. I can't argue with you when you say that the issue is with the rotors being too close to the center not allowing for clearance. That just makes plain damn sense, and never would have thought of that if you weren't here to drop in to learn me about that key piece of information. And as for size, yes your are right, I'm not going with those 235s. But that all said, I'm going to whip out the tool box, spend some extra cash, and make this work!!! First off, nobody wants to spend money on wheels and then ship them back paying shipping and paying restock fees.... So I called bb wheels and they said they should fit, but I had remembered what your told me. I kept stressing that possibility of "what if they don't fit" and they finally told me that they where going to call a rep from Rotiform which they too said " they should fit over brembros." However I still stressed the "what if they don't fit", even after I've gotten verification by the two companies. I asked if I would still take the fall, if in fact they didn't work after telling me they would. They ended up telling me that they would send one wheel and if it fit, than great and if it didn't, then they would not charge me for return shipping or restock fees. BUT I remember what you told me about my options for actually assuring a fit. So I've decided to purchase your big break conversion since the only pictures that I have seen brembos with these wheels, is only showed with the calipers further from the center and very close to the barrel. And i don't even mind putting a 5mm spacer if needed. As far as weight goes, that extra 2 pounds wont bother me. I definitely intend on taking this car to 300 ponies, but.....its going look good first!!! Attached is a picture with 18x8 wheels made by ADV.1 (10.0 M.V1) ...These are 10K for a set and would be custom to a four lug pattern. Now Obviously I'm not going to drop that amount of cash on wheels, but what I'm trying to point out is that this car looks great with these styles of wheels and I really want to try to make this work with the information that you and everyone else here have given me. And if you see anyother issues that I maybe overlooking please let me know, and if there is away around it. Thank you. View attachment 78348
Those wheels look fantastic. But they should since they are a third the value of the car. From what I can tell, those are not Brembo calipers behind those wheels. They look like red caliper covers. 18" wheels look great on this car but I'm not sure I could take the degradation in ride quality from such a low profile tire needed to clear.
 

Registered
Joined
147 Posts
Those wheels look fantastic. But they should since they are a third the value of the car. From what I can tell, those are not Brembo calipers behind those wheels. They look like red caliper covers. 18" wheels look great on this car but I'm not sure I could take the degradation in ride quality from such a low profile tire needed to clear.
It's a picture from Forza Motorsport.
 

Registered
Joined
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Those wheels look fantastic. But they should since they are a third the value of the car. From what I can tell, those are not Brembo calipers behind those wheels. They look like red caliper covers. 18" wheels look great on this car but I'm not sure I could take the degradation in ride quality from such a low profile tire needed to clear.
Right, so in that picture the car is also lowered 0.8in. Without lowing I could possibly go 18x8 225/45 but I'm going to stick to 35 since I won't driving this every day.. Also I love and working in the northern part of Houston where pretty much all the road are "newer'ish" and smooth.
 

Registered
Joined
2,545 Posts
It's a picture from Forza Motorsport.
That's an incredible rendering then. Amazing how detailed video games are now.
 

Registered
Joined
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
That's an incredible rendering then. Amazing how detailed video games are now.
Yeah actually the red calipers you see don't say brembos because they didn't have a license to use the Brembo name in the game. But the rims are real. I adjusted the drop of the car - 0.8inches and put 18x8 and 225/35 tires... But in real life I think I'll leave the ride hight stock.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top