Fiat 124 Spider Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys, Sitting here cleaning out my belly button fluff when I had a thought ( yes, I know...) anyway, I was thinking why do 124 Spiders with the same engine get tuned by manufacturer so differently, why have 138 bhp for Classica & Lusso in UK and 168 bhp for the 124 Abarth and 160 bhp in USA / Canada for Classica & Lusso then add a miserly 4 hp for the so called Sporting version 124 Abarth ? Why not a standard 150 bhp say for Classica & Lusso and 170 bhp for the Sporting 124 Abarth version everywhere ? Not sure what rest of Europe gets but wouldn't be surprised if different again.
Does that make sense to have standard that makes sense? I had 170 bhp on my little 2006 R53 Mini Cooper S !
I know we are lucky enough to have so much talent and knowledge available on 124 Spider.org so let's hear what you guys think.................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
Agree. Someone said the US wouldn't tolerate lower than 160 and they went with 140 in paper here to help with emissions targets. A lot will have been mazda not wanting fiat to have more power on paper?

Also add that this multiair comes in 120 and 135 and 150 states in the mito and giulietta world. 170 for the Giulietta as well..

Most EU lussos dyno north of 150 when tested.

It's a bit of a mess!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Agree. Someone said the US wouldn't tolerate lower than 160 and they went with 140 in paper here to help with emissions targets. A lot will have been mazda not wanting fiat to have more power on paper?

Also add that this multiair comes in 120 and 135 and 150 states in the mito and giulietta world. 170 for the Giulietta as well..

Most EU lussos dyno north of 150 when tested.

It's a bit of a mess!
Hi Boddle lad and Thank you for that.......US would not tolerate less than 160 bhp, yet whilst giving them that they forgot to market and promote the Fiat 124 Spider model and act like 124 Abarth is just a slight upgrade, so 4hp when 168 bhp in the UK for the 124 Abarth "almost" sells it here...and then they throw an extra £10000 on the price which makes it just not worth the money. They also forget to promote and market the Spiders then drop them completely here !
The multiair comes in 120, 135, 150 and 170 bhp so the emissions thing is "iffy" at best and I am guessing those figures also apply to vehicles sold across "The Pond" and in mainland Europe.......
Most EU lusso's dyno at 150 hp.......so going back to my original question......Why not 150 bhp for Classica & Lusso versions of the 124 Spider which would make an already lightweight and responsive Sports car even more grin enhancing and so SELL more without affecting emissions too much and throw 170 bhp at the 124 Abarth, fit standard Bilsteins and Brembo's and Sell that version as, "And if you want something a bit special......."
We then all would know where we stand, have a Sports car that everybody would be happy with and could still upgrade but know that it was already, "The Business".
Has Boddle covered it all, or....Do you know something we don't ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
787 Posts
I'm curious to see how many people ask my car's horsepower. I suspect many will be surprised how low it is. I certainly wouldn't mind a little more.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I'm curious to see how many people ask my car's horsepower. I suspect many will be surprised how low it is. I certainly wouldn't mind a little more.
Yes, that's it isn't it....The 124 Spider Abarth looks Great and is/should be fitted out with the relevant Sporting kit of suspension, brakes and exhaust as a basic requirement, however, "Power" is puny at 4 bhp over a 124 Classica / Lusso.....The good news is that you can whip it onto a dyno and increase without too much chance of damaging the engine unit short or longer term, if it's young and healthy to start with, but why should you have to....168 bhp already there for UK models, proven. For a Classica or Lusso model stateside at 160 bhp is good enough for standard, but 138 bhp in UK.....again WTF were they doing, Classica skinny 16" OEM alloys and stock springs make making more power dubious, but the Lusso on 17" and 205's steadier, as in the US to handle 160 bhp no problemo !
As Bottle says, "It a bit of a mess"!
If I was Fiat, and cared, I would be reading these threads, taking stock, sacking the Pillocks who are responsible and planning out a 124 Spider Mk 11, big base drum, bagpipes and marketing included, if I was "Abarth" I would stand up to Fiat and say, " Non fino a quando non ci lasci respirace su di esso" !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
It think it makes some sense from a marketing point of view, as much as any marketing of cars in different markets make any sense...

Starting with the max 170 for the non-US Abarth (never seen 168 anywhere?) perhaps additional US emissions reg's resulted in 164. Then because Abarth is a separate "premium" brand, they can charge a premium price differential for all the extra bits and badges, and help justify the cost with a 30 bhp drop to a mere 140 for the Fiat (again, never seen 138?) which outside the US is less of an issue. But in the US, Abarth is just a trim level, leading to a much lower premium, and a slight drop to 160 was perhaps all they could get away with in the land of cubic inches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
138/140 and 168/170 is difference between hp/bhp/ps depending on how it is listed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Arthur and Brexit !

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
138/140 and 168/170 is difference between hp/bhp/ps depending on how it is listed.
Yep, a fella called James Watt (inventor) worked out a horse lifting coal out of a mine did it in a minute so 1 Hp=3300 Ft-Lbs, Boffin right! so now they call it 1HP= 746 watts, more Boffins and they achieve this by Dyno measurement of maximum rate of acceleration and top speed. BHP measures HP without considering loss of power to generator , gearbox, water pump and so on.
HP therefore measures through attachments to engine whilst on dyno with no outside interference. Outlet Horsepower.
BHP measured by Boffins through calculations for on the road.. air flows, resistances. Input brake horsepower.
So, as Boddle points out and I indicate above, 138 bhp & 168 bhp refer to on the road, proven. If I was talking about Dyno measurements then I would have said HP. Sorry for confusion caused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,053 Posts
...a fella called James Watt...
People form Greenock are consistently of above average intelligence (and good looking and modest too). :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brexit !

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
It think it makes some sense from a marketing point of view, as much as any marketing of cars in different markets make any sense...

Starting with the max 170 for the non-US Abarth (never seen 168 anywhere?) perhaps additional US emissions reg's resulted in 164. Then because Abarth is a separate "premium" brand, they can charge a premium price differential for all the extra bits and badges, and help justify the cost with a 30 bhp drop to a mere 140 for the Fiat (again, never seen 138?) which outside the US is less of an issue. But in the US, Abarth is just a trim level, leading to a much lower premium, and a slight drop to 160 was perhaps all they could get away with in the land of cubic inches.
Hopefully have now explained HP to BHP through Boddles comment so......Reading what you say, yes to a degree marketing as do others, however...A for example Mercedes late 1980s-early 1990s produced the 190 in 2.0 lt, 2.6 lt & 2.5 "Cosworth" and "Everybody" knew what was what, 2 lt Nice vehicle but had to work hard. 2.6 lt nice vehicle, pulled like a train (I had one), the...."2.5 lt Cosworth", you invested in POWER and pace.
124 Classica, 124 Lusso & 124 Abarth.....what could and should have been.............Cheers
ron
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
People form Greenock are consistently of above average intelligence (and good looking and modest too). :D
Gentlemen......I present Graeme from....where was it again Mate ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,053 Posts
Gentlemen......I present Graeme from....where was it again Mate ?
Lol. To be fair, Greenock is a dump, albeit a dump in a very pretty part of the world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
953 Posts
And ps is used in continental europe.from the german horsepower and is the DIN unit (HP) vs the SAE unit of BHP. Just to add that nugget!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brexit !

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
I think all this boils down to the 124s not being seen to outgun the MX5?
Their latest 2.0ltr engine is now rated at 180, making it a little faster than the A124.... We have to wait for Mazda to launch the NE MX5..... Will Fiat want to play again? I doubt it with the new mega merger with PSA... They will have to use all the currently shared platforms.... Expect a Peugeot based Roadster.... Not enough volume to fire up the factory. Having already got the classic 124, I'm now calling my A124 a Modern Classic, and plan to keep them both. Very possible but I'm very worried I'll be 103 when the new one hits 46...hope I can still drive.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Oh forgot to mention, that bird must be fae Port Glasgow.... Hope you managed to avoid heel marks on the paint too?
Aye, she wasn't too bad you know, she liked Meaties & Smokies, but alas, Arthur's pockets were sewn up I hear, so she only did what any local Hen would do................;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Ah boys, you’ve hit the nail on the head. What not 180-190 ponies for all models, with an Abarth upgrade to 240 or so. We know the 1.7 engine “fits” and is already available. That would make Classica and Lusso peppy beasts and get the Abarth really scooting down the pike. Then advertise and promote the darn things. 2seat sports cars will never be “big” sellers in a world obsessed with the SUV, but methinks ponies and promotion would certainly help sales, sigh. FWIW when I bought mine it’d been sitting on the lot for well over a year. They’d sold several, but mine was a stick and nobody wanted one (in a Sports Car😳). I got a great deal as a result but still... After I’d made the deal the salesman tells me “you know that car has one of the best theft deterrent device available?” I said “Really.” He says ”yeah, that third pedal. You could probably leave the keys in it and 98% of the young punks out there couldn’t figure out how to steal it”.😏
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top