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Discussion Starter #1
So like my title suggest why doesn't FCA use a different engine to entice new sales? I'm just spouting some stuff around so tell me what you guys think.

Some people I've heard from are hesitant to buy into the 124 spider for two reasons. 1. they're concerned over the fact its a fiat. and 2. it lacks power/ wimpy engine. Sure it's fast for a light car, but I often hear people wanting more.

A simple and easy upgrade for FCA would be to implement the 2.4 tigershark engine for a small bump in HP or the new 1.3l firefly (producing nearly the same HP as the 2.4) considering the number of shared engine mounts with the 1.4L. They even have Alfo Romeo engines available to them technically. They could try to implement the 1750 TBi for an even larger gain. It is already in the Giulietta and that shares both that and the 1.4. Granted its FWD front mounted just like how the 4c is RWD and rear mounted so engine positioning development would cost them a little.

In addition, since the 2019 Miata got a power bump it kind of tears into their sales. It just seems like they've lost their compassion and competitiveness for their cars at times sticking with this 1.4L in almost everything they produce in North America. I've been holding off purchasing a 124 spider solely because of that 1.4L. Personally I think the 124 spider nailed it with the looks and I can't imagine a better looking car (that isn't over 60k) but power delivery should be increased to rival the Miata. Personally it looks like they're just holding back to meet emissions and save some money.

I'm kind of just rambling but I've always wanted to buy into the Abarth 124 spider but power is my concern. I just feel the 1.4L is limited on how much further it can go. What engine would you like to see in a future 124 spider? Or is it just destined to be pulled from market in a few years? Or am I too critical on this 1.4L.
 

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They fear success.
 

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So like my title suggest why doesn't FCA use a different engine to entice new sales? I'm just spouting some stuff around so tell me what you guys think.

Some people I've heard from are hesitant to buy into the 124 spider for two reasons. 1. they're concerned over the fact its a fiat. and 2. it lacks power/ wimpy engine. Sure it's fast for a light car, but I often hear people wanting more.

A simple and easy upgrade for FCA would be to implement the 2.4 tigershark engine for a small bump in HP or the new 1.3l firefly (producing nearly the same HP as the 2.4) considering the number of shared engine mounts with the 1.4L. They even have Alfo Romeo engines available to them technically. They could try to implement the 1750 TBi for an even larger gain. It is already in the Giulietta and that shares both that and the 1.4. Granted its FWD front mounted just like how the 4c is RWD and rear mounted so engine positioning development would cost them a little.

In addition, since the 2019 Miata got a power bump it kind of tears into their sales. It just seems like they've lost their compassion and competitiveness for their cars at times sticking with this 1.4L in almost everything they produce in North America. I've been holding off purchasing a 124 spider solely because of that 1.4L. Personally I think the 124 spider nailed it with the looks and I can't imagine a better looking car (that isn't over 60k) but power delivery should be increased to rival the Miata. Personally it looks like they're just holding back to meet emissions and save some money.

I'm kind of just rambling but I've always wanted to buy into the Abarth 124 spider but power is my concern. I just feel the 1.4L is limited on how much further it can go. What engine would you like to see in a future 124 spider? Or is it just destined to be pulled from market in a few years? Or am I too critical on this 1.4L.
I know what you are talking about, but do you think is cost effective to fabricate an engine exclusively for a car that don't sell as much as other cars. I bet if sales were a lot better for this car it would definitely get an update in power. But I'm seeing this from a profit. If not it would get maybe to expensive and you would prefer to buy a 4c or something else.
 

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If I have this right elansky you joined the forum 2 hours ago but do not own a 124 Spider.........I am wondering ..Have you driven one ? and How do you come up with all these engine suggestions ? Questions as I am confused.
The Fiat 124 Spider weighs next to nothing, power to weight ratio therefore excellent with this engine/turbo combination, the Multi Air 1.4 does not seem to upset folk here, be it 138 hp & 170 hp UK or the 160 - 164 hp USA, what seems to be the main discussion on this "Small engine of the year 2010" is how to overcome turbo lag, GFB D+, Larger Turbo's, tuning and better breathing exhaust systems. The lads talk about the emissions problem and as Jesus says, Sales, or lack of in this sector and profitability, which effects Mazda MX5 ND also it seems. The USA 124 Abarth version we can only dream about owning now this side of the pond as ours ceased in 2019, plus, the cost to purchase was around £32000 when you can pick one up still for a song.......
I would suggest the positives in owning such a rare and beautiful example of Japanese engineering and electrics mixed with that Italian styling and proven engine, that sings when correctly fettled would be the way to decide on ownership, or not.
Study the thread by Brian Goodwin of Good-Win racing and I am certain that you will find yourself very impressed with what can be achieved by working and tickling the 124 Abarth especially.
I am one of those, "Would never buy a Fiat" (along with a few other manufacturers ) brigade, however, as I stated above, on this occasion the Japanese / Italian partnership clicked well. Cheers
ron
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I know what you are talking about, but do you think is cost effective to fabricate an engine exclusively for a car that don't sell as much as other cars. I bet if sales were a lot better for this car it would definitely get an update in power. But I'm seeing this from a profit. If not it would get maybe to expensive and you would prefer to buy a 4c or something else.
It's not so much they have to fabricate another engine, but there are other FCA engines that are similar in mounting, weight, and size that can slot in at a higher HP that are already developed. And the 4c as nice as it is styling is just a little 'too much'. But the 4c engine would arguably be the best engine to throw in the 124 but then that would cut into the 4c sales.

If I have this right elansky you joined the forum 2 hours ago but do not own a 124 Spider.........I am wondering ..Have you driven one ? and How do you come up with all these engine suggestions ? Questions as I am confused.
The Fiat 124 Spider weighs next to nothing, power to weight ratio therefore excellent with this engine/turbo combination, the Multi Air 1.4 does not seem to upset folk here, be it 138 hp & 170 hp UK or the 160 - 164 hp USA, what seems to be the main discussion on this "Small engine of the year 2010" is how to overcome turbo lag, GFB D+, Larger Turbo's, tuning and better breathing exhaust systems. The lads talk about the emissions problem and as Jesus says, Sales, or lack of in this sector and profitability, which effects Mazda MX5 ND also it seems. The USA 124 Abarth version we can only dream about owning now this side of the pond as ours ceased in 2019, plus, the cost to purchase was around £32000 when you can pick one up still for a song.......
I would suggest the positives in owning such a rare and beautiful example of Japanese engineering and electrics mixed with that Italian styling and proven engine, that sings when correctly fettled would be the way to decide on ownership, or not.
Study the thread by Brian Goodwin of Good-Win racing and I am certain that you will find yourself very impressed with what can be achieved by working and tickling the 124 Abarth especially.
I am one of those, "Would never buy a Fiat" (along with a few other manufacturers ) brigade, however, as I stated above, on this occasion the Japanese / Italian partnership clicked well. Cheers
ron
I've been a lurker reading posts and etc. I had a 124 abarth rented for a month during a business trip to San Antonio in the summer in 2018. Fun car to drive, just seemed limited is all. And i apologize if this comes off rude but, i fail to see how relevant my ownership and time i've been a member have to do with me discussing the engine of a car i adore. Many of the people i've talked about it with in the real world have come back with complaints of power and tuning. Including a lifetime friend who owns an 2018 124 abarth. Don't get me wrong what's more poetic than a roadster that you can track engineering and influence from many countries in the world.
 

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I think the answer to the question posed in the OP is quite simple. If FCA wasn't willing to make a decent effort to promote the vehicle to begin with, why would we even dream that they might consider changing the engine to attract new owners? lol

If you really like the car, just purchase one and invest a few more bucks in some aftermarket upgrades and a decent tune. Then you'll have the car you like with the performance you want. That's what many of us have done, and I'm certainly happy with the results I've gotten from it. You can do the same thing, but with a far lower initial investment since the prices have dropped so much over the past year or so.
 

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An different engine might only result in a small incremental increase in sales. If FCA was going to do something along those lines, I assume they would have had to see much larger sales of the 124 before making such a change - possibly 2-3 times the yearly sales?

Unfortunately FCA fired most (all?) of its US-based Marketing people a few years back. With more advertising, it's possible sales could have been better...
 

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It's not so much they have to fabricate another engine, but there are other FCA engines that are similar in mounting, weight, and size that can slot in at a higher HP that are already developed. And the 4c as nice as it is styling is just a little 'too much'. But the 4c engine would arguably be the best engine to throw in the 124 but then that would cut into the 4c sales.



I've been a lurker reading posts and etc. I had a 124 abarth rented for a month during a business trip to San Antonio in the summer in 2018. Fun car to drive, just seemed limited is all. And i apologize if this comes off rude but, i fail to see how relevant my ownership and time i've been a member have to do with me discussing the engine of a car i adore. Many of the people i've talked about it with in the real world have come back with complaints of power and tuning. Including a lifetime friend who owns an 2018 124 abarth. Don't get me wrong what's more poetic than a roadster that you can track engineering and influence from many countries in the world.
Okay yeah they have similar engines but for what? remember if the next level of the 124 is the 4c if you pump too much the 124 you lose 4c customers or force to put more power on the 4c. but for what I see there are no plans on either of those. and they should because all car makers are getting more power and technology on their cars. Look the jump the 330i did. They bumped the car power from 180hp to 240hp from 2018 to 2019 to make it an attractive car. So your first argument has relevance for us but apparently not for the FCA. they should bump 4c to 300hp to compete with other sports cars because the next gen of BMW for what I have read it's killer, you will have an X4M and X3M doing 3.3 sec 0-60 and M series taking that engine to maybe pull numbers for 3 sec 0-60 so eventually if they want to maintain sales they should consider those changes. But for now we should live with what we have and see what the future brings. Becuase I have also read that the QV is getting changes but what about the others? is the QV the only relevant car?
 

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What's wrong with the engine? It's a common, workhorse Fiat engine with an enviable record of durability. Parts are readily available, there's an aftermarket, and the engine and forced induction is well- matched to the car, especially in Abarth sport mode -- are you sure your friend has discovered the little switch in back of the shifter...? ;)

It's also readily matched to the Miata NC transmission and the ND driveline and platform. A more powerful engine would be nice, but would have to be designed exclusively for "extremely niche" circumstances. Given the design and manufacturing issues that the Miata ND is having, I think it would be a far better bet for Fiat to peel off a sizable chunk of the Miata market; advertising, as mentioned before, is the real issue.
 

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The reason they aren't going to update the 124 Spider engine is because they aren't going to update the 124 Spider at all. Going into North America has failed, and it's costing them. The 124, sadly, has not sold the way they needed it to. After 2020, it's done. I'll be very surprised if Fiat has a North American presence at all by say 2025, and I'm actually expecting them to give it up before that.

They thought the North American buyer had forgotten Fiat's 1970's and 80's reputation, which they had not, and while the 500 was fashionable, fashionable was not enough in the rapidly changing and brutally competitive marketplace. FCA thought they could enter the North American market with the Fiat brand, at the same time the Koreans were bringing world beaters, and bring stuff that's mediocre. That was never going to fly, and now they're paying the price.

The real shame is that the one product they have that is genuinely world class, the 124 Spider, is burdened with the stigma of the Fiat badge, or the pure invisibility of the Abarth badge, in North America, when the car is in fact a prettier, more powerful Mazda MX5, known globally as the finest small sports car one can buy. I'm buying one before they're gone.

The one product they could have, and should have, marketed as world class quality and reliability, they ignored, didn't advertise and now they simply cannot sell them.

The last thing they're going to do now is spend one damn penny doing anything to update it, especially for the North American market.
 

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The reason they aren't going to update the 124 Spider engine is because they aren't going to update the 124 Spider at all. Going into North America has failed, and it's costing them. The 124, sadly, has not sold the way they needed it to. After 2020, it's done. I'll be very surprised if Fiat has a North American presence at all by say 2025, and I'm actually expecting them to give it up before that.

They thought the North American buyer had forgotten Fiat's 1970's and 80's reputation, which they had not, and while the 500 was fashionable, fashionable was not enough in the rapidly changing and brutally competitive marketplace. FCA thought they could enter the North American market with the Fiat brand, at the same time the Koreans were bringing world beaters, and bring stuff that's mediocre. That was never going to fly, and now they're paying the price.

The real shame is that the one product they have that is genuinely world class, the 124 Spider, is burdened with the stigma of the Fiat badge, or the pure invisibility of the Abarth badge, in North America, when the car is in fact a prettier, more powerful Mazda MX5, known globally as the finest small sports car one can buy. I'm buying one before they're gone.

The one product they could have, and should have, marketed as world class quality and reliability, they ignored, didn't advertise and now they simply cannot sell them.

The last thing they're going to do now is spend one damn penny doing anything to update it, especially for the North American market.
Imagine the new leadership at FCA/PSA at a board meeting . Try to imagine ten agenda items, beginning with, say: merger logistics & timeline; new corporate name; existing contract structures; marketing/ communication roll outs....well, I would think you get the picture.
 

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Let’s not overlook the fact it’s built by Mazda - I’d imagine that relationship:

1. Complicates any reengineering effort to start with and...

2. Mazda would veto any move that made the 124 significantly more powerful than the MX-5

In any case, the 1.4 Multiair has been in a few cars with an enthusiast following now, so the aftermarket is going to be better than that for the 1.3 Firefly or any other possible alternative other than maybe the 2.0 from the Guilia / Stelvio and that’s never going to happen for the reasons above.
 

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I think all of the above is relevant, covers it all and confirms that we have one Really Good Sports car in the 124 Spider, no matter which model you choose as you can go basic sports car in the "Classica" with seats, steering and brakes, a blank canvass to Mod and update as you will. You can sit in luxury in the "Lusso" or again Mod, or, you can go 124 Abarth ( a name that Fiat should have pounced upon but didn't, Ford and Cosworth come to mind here) and cruise, race, mod and know that you are the proud owner, no matter which model you choose, of a very Rare, Reliable and Beautiful future Classic in the making.............If you haven't grabbed your 124 Spider by now then know this... Someone else will ! Cheers
ron
 

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Love the car. With a few mods it is ideal. That said Mazda did update the engine in the Miata. That is not a refresh but a completely different engine. Shows there commitment to the marketplace and Fiats lack of it. The lack of commitment also shows in the dealer network and the rest of the product line.
 

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Does anyone know whether the Giulia's 2.0L and associated transmissions will fit the 124 Spider? That engine seems the obvious one to me, and it was intended to see wide use.

Someone here mentioned a contractual agreement between FCA and Mazda limiting the 124 Spider's displacement. If that is true, and not up for renegotiation, then the best we can hope for is further tuning of the 1.4L.
 

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The reason they aren't going to update the 124 Spider engine is because they aren't going to update the 124 Spider at all. Going into North America has failed, and it's costing them. The 124, sadly, has not sold the way they needed it to. After 2020, it's done. I'll be very surprised if Fiat has a North American presence at all by say 2025, and I'm actually expecting them to give it up before that.

They thought the North American buyer had forgotten Fiat's 1970's and 80's reputation, which they had not, and while the 500 was fashionable, fashionable was not enough in the rapidly changing and brutally competitive marketplace. FCA thought they could enter the North American market with the Fiat brand, at the same time the Koreans were bringing world beaters, and bring stuff that's mediocre. That was never going to fly, and now they're paying the price.

The real shame is that the one product they have that is genuinely world class, the 124 Spider, is burdened with the stigma of the Fiat badge, or the pure invisibility of the Abarth badge, in North America, when the car is in fact a prettier, more powerful Mazda MX5, known globally as the finest small sports car one can buy. I'm buying one before they're gone.

The one product they could have, and should have, marketed as world class quality and reliability, they ignored, didn't advertise and now they simply cannot sell them.

The last thing they're going to do now is spend one damn penny doing anything to update it, especially for the North American market.
Imagine the new leadership at FCA/PSA at a board meeting . Try to imagine ten agenda items, beginning with, say: merger logistics & timeline; new corporate name; existing contract structures; marketing/ communication roll outs....well, I would think you get the picture
Love the car. With a few mods it is ideal. That said Mazda did update the engine in the Miata. That is not a refresh but a completely different engine. Shows there commitment to the marketplace and Fiats lack of it. The lack of commitment also shows in the dealer network and the rest of the product line.
Mazda occupies a secure position in the US market and can capitalize on nearly 30 years of brand awareness and good will related to their roadster. Fiat enjoys neither advantage. Given what's on their plate--merger priorities, scaling up R&D for electric/self driving vehicles-- the suggestions made in this thread are somewhat fanciful. It's rather incredible they even took a flyer on this car to begin with. It's a niche product, folks. For niche you may also substitute "unprofitable" or even "anachronistic." To my way of thinking we are lucky to own the Spider at all given that these models are not likely to ever be mentioned again in any design meeting, by any manufacturer intent on remaining profitable.
 

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Simple: What @68wooley said.

EDIT: why would a 'better' engine entice sales? The engine is but a minor part of sales in this day and age.
 

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Sadly the 124 has simply not sold in anything like the numbers needed to re coup the development costs and so there is no way FCA will commit more money to a car already axed in the UK and on its way out in Europe and North America. Its a tragedy as I love my car with many strangers commenting on its looks etc. Unfortunately as someone has mentioned, its achilles heel is Fiat's reputation from the 70s and 80s which still lingers today despite their current cars being as good as anyone's. In theory the combination of an Italian designed sports car built by the Japanese is a dream ticket and such a marketing message would have resulted in Mazda not being able to build them fast enough, however I'm sure this message would have been completely unpalatable to FCA's hierarchy in Turin
 
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