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124 spider will get manuf. for N.
.A. as long Mx5 Nd is Manuf.
Also Fiat put the 1.3 firefly engine in thr 500X due to the 1.4 would not meet envirornment standards.
 

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Mazda occupies a secure position in the US market and can capitalize on nearly 30 years of brand awareness and good will related to their roadster. Fiat enjoys neither advantage. Given what's on their plate--merger priorities, scaling up R&D for electric/self driving vehicles-- the suggestions made in this thread are somewhat fanciful. It's rather incredible they even took a flyer on this car to begin with. It's a niche product, folks. For niche you may also substitute "unprofitable" or even "anachronistic." To my way of thinking we are lucky to own the Spider at all given that these models are not likely to ever be mentioned again in any design meeting, by any manufacturer intent on remaining profitable.
Exactly. FCA joining Mazda for the development on this chassis saved the MX5 and got us the 124 Spider. Without that partnership neither car would exist. Mazda probably had a certain amount of update/facelift funding built into their planning for this chassis, and FCA definitely did not. Now, if the 124 had become some miraculous sales hit, maybe we'd get a facelift and a new engine after a decade, like the 500.

I'm grateful we got the car we did. The MX5, for as amazing as it handles, is as pretty as a gangrenous headwound, whereas the 124 is genuinely one of the prettiest, perfectly proportioned cars one can buy today. The fact that they're 70% the same car blows my mind.

I'm having a real tough time waiting these last few weeks before I go pick mine off the vine...
 

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Does anyone know whether the Giulia's 2.0L and associated transmissions will fit the 124 Spider? That engine seems the obvious one to me, and it was intended to see wide use.

Someone here mentioned a contractual agreement between FCA and Mazda limiting the 124 Spider's displacement. If that is true, and not up for renegotiation, then the best we can hope for is further tuning of the 1.4L.
With will and wealth, anything can be modified to fit anything.... With that out of the way, I don't see how the Giulia's engine and transmissions could be adapted without major (read "more expensive than is acceptable" and perhaps "problematic") redesign and re-engineering. The Miata ND platform/driveline that wraps around the Fiat engine and older NC transmission was purpose-built for Mazda's own choices. Fiat was able to "plug in" cheap alternatives by "wonking" a few solutions -- widening the transmission tunnel for the NC transmission and using different mounting hardware, and doing less savory things like cludging a "clown-downpipe" and cross-over.... A Giulia-based choice -- however much it makes sense -- is a different order or design and expense.

I'm not aware of any contractual agreement between FCA and Mazda limiting the 124's engine displacement or power. I've seen speculation over on the big Mazda forum, but that's in the same category as owners and moderators over there insisting that the reason why Fiat chose the NC transmission over the ND's is because Mazda refused to let them use it.... (rolleyes) It's O's Razor: the 1.4L was cheap to produce, readily-available and supported, and fit the platform well with a minimum of changes or potential problems.

Fiat, in other words, never really had a deep commitment to the 124; it was a cheap experiment. But in choosing the the excellent Miata ND platform and replacing the two weakest components of the ND -- the execrable transmission and an engine that tends to warp heads and burn valves at high mileage -- and creating a more appealing body (that doesn't resemble an Opel GT/Chevy Corvette clone) they created a much better car. ;)
 

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I never said it would be easy. :)

I think we can all agree that FCA's commitment is, ahem, limited, that it is unlikely to develop a special powertrain for a Spider upgrade, and that the ND platform wasn't designed with swaps in mind. Still, LSs have been stuffed under Miata hoods (not always with good results), proving your nothing is impossible statement. I was just hoping someone had, or could get their hands on, the pertinent dimensions.

Does anyone know what happened to the effort to stuff a Giulia QV powertrain into a Spider?

Fun to fantasize.
 

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I'm gonna stick with this 1.4 and see what can be squeezed out. The Abarth brand should have separated itself like in Europe and be more like Shelby here. They take an upper end "GT" model from Fiat and rework it for complete performance and then badge it an Abarth. And I would still change something to make it even better!
 

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I never said it would be easy. :)

I think we can all agree that FCA's commitment is, ahem, limited, that it is unlikely to develop a special powertrain for a Spider upgrade, and that the ND platform wasn't designed with swaps in mind. Still, LSs have been stuffed under Miata hoods (not always with good results), proving your nothing is impossible statement. I was just hoping someone had, or could get their hands on, the pertinent dimensions.

Does anyone know what happened to the effort to stuff a Giulia QV powertrain into a Spider?

Fun to fantasize.
Your last comment was something I was thinking as well. I found the thread on here that I think you were thinking of... swapping in a 1.8 from a 4C. If so, this is the link:
Alfa Romeo 4C 1750 Swap

The last post Ricehead makes says that he killed the project due to the cost involved to finish the project.
 

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Your last comment was something I was thinking as well. I found the thread on here that I think you were thinking of... swapping in a 1.8 from a 4C. If so, this is the link:
Alfa Romeo 4C 1750 Swap

The last post Ricehead makes says that he killed the project due to the cost involved to finish the project.
No, the project I was thinking of was the one where a 500+ HP 2.9L V6 twin-turbo was being stuffed under the Spider's hood.

Link:
 

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Hahahaaha, Eddie has been chasing crazy things for a while now. He had one working car and totaled it. First it was 1752 turbo. Then that never got worked out again and he tried T-Jet. Guess that didn't work out either and now we have a QV swap. I have nothing against the guy, he is an inspiration in many ways for a lot of people and me for that matter, but I really wish he would stick to something. Work through the bugs and share the learnings. Instead, its more give up at some point and start all over a little more radically and then see a shiny, squirrel, firetruck.

I know I have opened my savings vault on my car, but I wish I had this guys money and time.
 

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Not a ramble! It's a thoughtful post. Bottom line: FCA is a really lame car company. Truly incompetent. Buyers are lucky to have 2020 models. FCA is done with the 124. They're off tilting at windmills. looking at selling crappy Jeeps in the EU. They sold off the truck division to raise cash. Trucks were what kept Chrysler afloat in the darkest days. Now they're gone. They have no serious interest in running a car company. They may as well be selling shoes.
best regards
Pete
 

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What! We're not going to see a quad cab Renault pick-up? lol Their new motto.... build Renault tough. :)
 

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Get a tune, problem solved.
 

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Gee, and I thought the lack of investment was because production had been cancelled.
Silly me...
not at all, this car was lacking support from day one for one simple reason - multiair
why would you want to use oil pressure to control your valves? this is absolutely stupid except for one reason - to save gas, which a sports car should not be doing.
and it makes it very hard to tune at high RPM which is why the 124 power drops off like a rock after the mid-range
low sales numbers are not helping though
 

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not at all, this car was lacking support from day one for one simple reason - multiair
why would you want to use oil pressure to control your valves? this is absolutely stupid except for one reason - to save gas, which a sports car should not be doing.
and it makes it very hard to tune at high RPM which is why the 124 power drops off like a rock after the mid-range
low sales numbers are not helping though
Lack of support from whom?

I do not think that multiair is the cause of power dropping off in the high end. Please cite some references.
 
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Not a ramble! It's a thoughtful post. Bottom line: FCA is a really lame car company. Truly incompetent. Buyers are lucky to have 2020 models. FCA is done with the 124. They're off tilting at windmills. looking at selling crappy Jeeps in the EU. They sold off the truck division to raise cash. Trucks were what kept Chrysler afloat in the darkest days. Now they're gone. They have no serious interest in running a car company. They may as well be selling shoes.
best regards
Pete
Your post is nonsensical. FCA still own RAM. Jeep and RAM account for most of their product sales, which is an industry wide trend impacting all manufacturers except--who, Tesla? And they are in the midst of a merger with Peugeot that will make them the fourth largest automobile manufacturer in the world. The impetus for the merger is to scale up R & D of electronic and self driving vehicles, including cars. One can argue that the rollout of Fiat in the US indeed was incompetent, however, there was never going to be much profit in selling either 500s or 124s. The biggest market going forward for any vehicles, car or truck, is going to be China and other emerging Asian economies. And, lastly, in spite of their missteps FIAT has turned in many profitable quarters. How do I know that? Because I've made money off their stock.
 

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Problem with Fiat is: their largest PETROL engine in their line up is the 1.4l Fire with Multiair head. The largest Fiat engine right now is the 2.3l diesel in the Ducato. In cars it is the 1.6l Multijet. So Fiat lacks a Fiat engine for a Fiat car with more displacement. Additionally, the 1.725l Alfa engine, is supposed to stay only for Alfas. Like their twin turbo V6. Developed only for Alfa. Fiat has a strict policy of keeping engines with their brands. Economy boxes, like the MiTo used to be, share the Fiat engines. The larger cars have their own. Alfas Busso V6 is the first engine to jump into mind. Or Fiats 20V 5 cylinder of the 90ies. So they would need a new engine. The new Firefly engines are even smaller... A 1.0l 3 cylinder with 140 hp would be worse.

Also, engine weight is an issue. The Multiair (Fire) has a cast iron block. Like it was in the 80ies. Replace it with a lighter one, and you'll need suspension tweaks. Then comes the question how much can the diff take? And what can the transmission do? And how much stress can the body take to make it all reliable and safe. Then comes the homologation process, as to emissions and what not. A lot of factors. And then how many will Fiat shift? The Miata/MX5 is world renown. The 124 was even when it was popular around 30 years ago only a niche... So...
 
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Problem with Fiat is: their largest PETROL engine in their line up is the 1.4l Fire with Multiair head. The largest Fiat engine right now is the 2.3l diesel in the Ducato. In cars it is the 1.6l Multijet. So Fiat lacks a Fiat engine for a Fiat car with more displacement. Additionally, the 1.725l Alfa engine, is supposed to stay only for Alfas. Like their twin turbo V6. Developed only for Alfa. Fiat has a strict policy of keeping engines with their brands. Economy boxes, like the MiTo used to be, share the Fiat engines. The larger cars have their own. Alfas Busso V6 is the first engine to jump into mind. Or Fiats 20V 5 cylinder of the 90ies. So they would need a new engine. The new Firefly engines are even smaller... A 1.0l 3 cylinder with 140 hp would be worse.

Also, engine weight is an issue. The Multiair (Fire) has a cast iron block. Like it was in the 80ies. Replace it with a lighter one, and you'll need suspension tweaks. Then comes the question how much can the diff take? And what can the transmission do? And how much stress can the body take to make it all reliable and safe. Then comes the homologation process, as to emissions and what not. A lot of factors. And then how many will Fiat shift? The Miata/MX5 is world renown. The 124 was even when it was popular around 30 years ago only a niche... So...

From where I'm standing, given the manner in which automakers go about incestuously picking through each other's parts bins to make cars happen, and the already Fiatlessness of the 124 Spider, Fiat technically makes a 1000hp, 7Litre, Blown V8 called The Hellephant... Gorilla Glue a FIAT badge on the rocker covers and Robert is your father's brother. :devilish:
 

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Problem with Fiat is: their largest PETROL engine in their line up is the 1.4l Fire with Multiair head. The largest Fiat engine right now is the 2.3l diesel in the Ducato. In cars it is the 1.6l Multijet. So Fiat lacks a Fiat engine for a Fiat car with more displacement. Additionally, the 1.725l Alfa engine, is supposed to stay only for Alfas. Like their twin turbo V6. Developed only for Alfa. Fiat has a strict policy of keeping engines with their brands. Economy boxes, like the MiTo used to be, share the Fiat engines. The larger cars have their own. Alfas Busso V6 is the first engine to jump into mind. Or Fiats 20V 5 cylinder of the 90ies. So they would need a new engine. The new Firefly engines are even smaller... A 1.0l 3 cylinder with 140 hp would be worse.

Also, engine weight is an issue. The Multiair (Fire) has a cast iron block. Like it was in the 80ies. Replace it with a lighter one, and you'll need suspension tweaks. Then comes the question how much can the diff take? And what can the transmission do? And how much stress can the body take to make it all reliable and safe. Then comes the homologation process, as to emissions and what not. A lot of factors. And then how many will Fiat shift? The Miata/MX5 is world renowned. The 124 was even when it was popular around 30 years ago only a niche... So...
Maybe something from the PSA parts bin, then?

How many 124s per year did Fiat sell in the car's prime? I imagine the number isn't far off Miata's sales.

And I think Fiat's hold their value better than Jags. I know, that isn't saying much.
 

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From where I'm standing, given the manner in which automakers go about incestuously picking through each other's parts bins to make cars happen, and the already Fiatlessness of the 124 Spider, Fiat technically makes a 1000hp, 7Litre, Blown V8 called The Hellephant... Gorilla Glue a FIAT badge on the rocker covers and Robert is your father's brother. :devilish:
Forgive me, but due to my age, when you mentioend that engine, I had flashbacks to model car kits from the 70's.... these cartoonish things that had engines that stuck out of the hood and were taller than the roof of the vehicle. I was envisioning a Spider in that scenario. lol

74861
 
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